I would think taking a resource on the board and exchanging it with another card from your hand goes beyond a "misplay".

I have played in PCs and made play errors, and have been given sloppy play warnings because of it. But I have never been so tired that I replaced my own resources or pick up cards from my graveyard and put them in my hand. Things like that just don't happen.

Making the argument that he doesn’t know the rules, didn’t know his deck, or was tired doesn’t justify replacing a resource.

lasuther

Here in Europe we admired Höh. He's a great player and he was a good example for us. But men, he was DQ from a PC! If the best judges from all over the world said he's a cheater, then definitily he's a cheater.

comon guys....

nobody knows the EXCACTLY play situation....

and NOBODY knows the exactly ruling here...

NOBODY knows the exact chain....

NOBODY knows when which person passed...

NOBODY is so stupid to switch a resource row card with a handcard even if the opponent KNOWS the other card...

NOBODY tries that if other people are looking @ the game....

NOBODY tries that and dont trie to to taht as a misplay when the judges are comming IF he cheats, because IF you cheat in this situation and get caught you trie to do that as a missplay, and than you get a gameloss but get the money for top8.

THINK about that and dont talk about sittuations that you dont know bcoz you:

DONT KNOW THE EXACT RULLING

DONT KNOW THE CHAIN AND PLAY INTENTS

NOT BE THERE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS

so please shut up guys because hans ist perhabs the best player in the world like kai budde is in magic....

except for the fact that he cheats

What terrible news, I really though Hoh was going to be the next Mike Dalton for sure...

If only there was a gypsy or some kind of enchanter there to consult the bones...

i am concerned with people saying oh he had a little lapse in judgment or whatever, i mean, cheating is cheating, right? or is it only bad when cheating delivers an unfair result? or is it bad if cheating only directly affects you, i.e. in one of your matches. I am of the opinion that ZERO cheating should be allowed. And I agree with Lawson, i have been to 3 PC's, even back when we did the horrendous 3 game formats and people were more justifiably mind-wiped and nearly unconscious, but even then, picking up one card and replacing it with another is not a valid excuse. And for everyone who is saying, well he didn't know the cards or the exchange of cards, if you play are the pro circuit, you are supposed to know how the cards work. Someone made the point earlier in this thread that he has taken a reservist deck to top finishes in major events before, so he should be expected to know the exchange, especially since he knows what he is playing in the top 8 for day 3, so he would be thinking about that match...i cut him zero slack, cheaters hurt the game and the whole "lots of stress and the devil made me do it argument" is ridiculous imo....

ok, so i was there. and he cheated. gg life.

close this thread. i win.

Except that he was disqualified from the PC for cheating. You know other than that we don't know the exact ruling.

If he was innocent then why was he DQ'd? Must be because the judges hate Germans and were out to get him....There's really no other logical explanation.

I wish they would post the Match Transcript so we could know what occurred. However, I think it's being reviewed as evidence for the situation.
I suspect, if the way it was put on Metagame, that his prize should be reinstated. He WAS GOING TO LOSE ANYWAY! He was down 1-0, heavily down in the current game, and made a mistake, or a desperate play.

EDIT:
However, even is Hoh is cleared, don't expect him to appear in another Vs. event because of you vultures.

I agree with the close the thread part. The speculation can continue without anymore documentation of it and there is nothing more to be gained from the arguement. Hans will continue to have the most prominent soul patch in all of Vsedom, regardless and let's be honest, with out the face hair, he's just another pro. Let's pretty please end the discussion and focus on other things. The powers that be have handled it and the game is as great as it's ever been, so let's get back to what really matters, like cameltoe and proving that Skrull deserves rebirth, OK??!! Pretty Please?!!?

GG Billy :). Aim me sometime man, you were a treat to meet and play against. And tell the rest of REalm like Vidi and Alex, they are WELCOME that I MADE THEM MONEY with my DECK...

Aim is LAUGHWITHAJ

99% of the time yes ...

But he did so while a reservist recruit was on the chain ... one of the few times when you are able to put a card from your hand down.

HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING ... he may have believed that he mistakingly put his resource down too quickly [thinking that the resource replacement coincides with the recruitment resolving instead of being put onto the chain] and when things changed ... he changed what we was 'going to do' but had done too quickly.

[I have seen many players jump the gun and put down a resource for the turn before their opponent has finished their recruit step ... this is sloppy play, etc].

Now, considering that Reign of Terror is really the only card you'd see that would put a card into your hand while you are recruiting a reservist ... it's possible he never considered putting the character bounced to his hand into his resource row before and thus wasn't told why this is an illegal action.

IF you take fatigue into account, and how uncommon the situation would be ... it COULD be seen as a misplay ... however one that he SHOULD have asked a judge about. [When do I put my card down for the reservist I recruited ... before or after the reservist comes into play?] ...

Since he didn't ask anyone about it, and just went ahead and did it ... regardless of intent he cheated.

Saying he replaced a resource is one thing ... but at the very least he has a CASE that he had made a sloppy play [putting the Answer down too soon] and then 'corrected' his misplay [putting down the other card from his hand] without asking anyone ... and on top of that, he misplayed by beleiving the card wasn't supposed to go down originally. [Thus his initial perceived misplay was correct and his 'correction' was cheating].

I wasn't there, so I don't know all the facts, but you can't just say it's cut and dry there is no way anyone could ever mistakingly believe that's how things works, especially if they are that skilled as players.

I mean how many times have you been watching sports and see someone do something so STUPID, that even you, someone who barely played the sport in high school, if at all, could have realized was a bad idea. Under pressure [both time, and what the outcome is] and with situations far from optimal [fatigue, etc] ... you can't expect them to know every aspect of the rules inside and outside.

That particular element of reservists only matters if your opponent chains something to your recruitment that would change your mind about what to put down. And it's not like he was playing Avengers where you'll be using Reservists every turn ... Squad has some, but with a no hand build, you rarely have a tough decision on what to put down.

His opponent played a card that would change his decision of what to put down. However, he didn't have an opportunity to change his mind. Either he blatantly cheated, or believed he had an opportunity to change his mind.

Again, I don't know what's what ... but either he possibly made a mistake, or he possibly chose a time to cheat that was most defensible ...

We do know what the Metagame has told us. You can read the whole statement at the beginning of this post. As far as I know, no one has disputed Metagames published statement. All my comments are based off of that, so I did think before I posted. Here is a quote:

“Hans switched the Answer the Call in his resource row with Shape, an illegal play.”

That is what we know. Now you might not believe the Metagame report or think there is a conspiracy to tarnish an innocent man. I have no reason to doubt their report. In my experience the judges of PCs have always given the benefit of the doubt to player in question unless there was irrefutable proof. I trust the judge and head judge of the event with their ruling.

He did replace a resource with a card from his hand and I can not think of any situation where that is ok. I don’t care what the chain looked like.

And don’t tell me to shut up.

lasuther

Here is the key. If he had announced what he was doing, then the action could have been disputed, the judge called over, the action taken back, and the whole situation avoided. The fact that he tried to sneak one under the radar makes it cheating, and not just a misplay, or a misinterpretation of rules.

Just liked to point out:

(a) I didn't say it was an EXCUSE, I said it was an EXPLANATION. People do stupid things for stupid reasons ... those reasons aren't EXCUSES, but it helps to understand WHY someone did it. Normally, a person would drive their car into a tree. The 'reason' was they were drunk. It doesn't excuse them, it's still there fault, but it explains why they did something they wouldn't normally do.

(b) Cheat once and you are a cheater for life? Once you cross the line there is no coming back, and you must be outcast from society to wander in the wilderness. Oh, AND, every past action you made, no matter the circumstance you get retconned so that you cheat there to. It's nice to see that people are absolutists. Anyone who has ever lied is a liar ... can anyone name someone that has never lied? Odds are they'd be lying ;) ... or honestly believe they've never been lied to. [Which they have, they just don't know it].

(c) Cheating is wrong. I haven't said he didn't deserve to be DQ'ed with no prize. But I'm not going to immediately jump on the ban him bandwagon ... it may be an issolated incident that is a HORRIBLE choice made in the heat of the moment. Maybe it was a HUGE brain fart on his part and he didn't even think to ASK if it was legal to change what he was putting down with his reservist. Or maybe he's a dirty rotten cheater that's finally been caught. That's why UDE is doing an investigation instead of just throwing him to the wolves to decide what to do with him.

(d) There's a reason they have rules about cheating ... it's because they realize you'll never have a way to eliminate all cheating from the game. If they do get that accomplished, they might as well overthrow the government because they'll probably be able to stamp out crime, poverty and disease as well ... but seriously, while eliminating cheating should be a concern for judges, they need to make sure they don't go overboard EITHER. While it's upsetting to have cheating alter the integrity of the event ... it would be just as horrible to have people get severe punishments based on the premise that they need to be made an example of.

A punishment punishes the person that gets caught ... it's not going to prevent people from cheating, just make them work a little better at keeping it under wraps. The Hoh thing will prevent people who are tempted to stray from trying to 'see if they can get away with it' ... but it won't stop people who have commited to cheating ... I'm assuming they would have been much BETTER at it than Hoh ... I doubt anyone would argue that he wouldn't get caught replacing a resource, especially the situation. [When he tries to play the Answer ... is his opponent going to somehow forget that he sent Shape to his hand?]