Sorry if this has been asked before, but I can't find any threads with this question in it. So....

I have two questions about the new FF feat, which lets all pieces with the FF TA on your team share defense values.

1) If a wildcard copies the FF TA, can they then also use the FF feat benefit, i.e., can they share defense values with any other FF team member?

2) If the answer to my first question is "yes", then can I use the Thunderbolts feat card to have some pieces with the Avengers TA copy FF TA, and then use the FF feat card so they can all share defense values?

Thanks for any replies!

1) Yes, provided you have a real FF team member on your team so your wildcard can copy the AFF ability from the FF figure.

2) No, the T-Bolts card cannot copy the AFF ability because the T-Bolts assignment must be made before the game starts. The AFF ability is a Feat card, and it doesn't become active until the game starts which means you cannot copy it via T-Bolts.

For example, you have Invisible Girl on your team with the AFF feat, and Jarvis with the T-bolts feat, and choose the FF TA.

Doom can now copy the AFF from Invisible Girl to share thier DV. Then, he can later copy the original FF TA from Jarvis to heal a click when Jarvis bites the bucket.



Clear as mud, eh....

That is a dang good question!

I'd want to say yes, but I really don't know. Team cards are kinda like using "White-Out" on your PAC, but since come in to play at the same time I don't know what happens.

My guess would be no. The New FF power is share defense, so since it is no longer on the PAC to copy, T-bolts can't be that. You want your PAC to read like this

Fantastic Four = share defense, blah, blah

Avengers = Same power as someone else on my PAC (I pick FF)

Therefore, through my Non-Judge logic, I'd say No to Jarvis with the old FF ability.



P.S. - Can you use T-bolts to copy DC or Indy powers?

I think Funky Jett already gave the clear answer.

So an Avenger with the Thunderbolts Feat on it that chose FF would have the old FF TA. (It cannot get the AFF Feat.)

Yes.

I just read both cards several times, and although my initial inclination is to agree with the general sentiment of the thread, I can't understand why aff and thunderbolts wouldn't work in conjunction. aff doesn't say anything about changing the team ability it just says all friendly characters with the ff TA have the aff TA instead; there is no indication of when this takes place. So, later after you've placed your team in the starting area and declared the ff TA as the one you're switching the avengers TA to then your thunderbolted avengers fall under the specifications of the Alt FF card because they are friendly characters with the ff TA. and then everyone runs out and buys unique wasps.

if I'm wrong could someone explain to me why?
thanks

Think of it this way. All Feats become are attached and become active at the same time: before the game begins. Before the game begins, an Avenger figure using the Thunderbolts card is not a FF team member (it's not really anything becaase the the player hasn't yet chosen the new TA). Since the Thunderbolt figure is *not* FF, it doesn't meet the prerequists to use the alternate FF TA. Once the game begins, the Thunderbolt figure could choose FF as his TA, but since the prerequist checking part has already come and gone, he can't be part of the alternate FF.

the alt ff card doesn't say ff team members, it says characters with the ff team ability, and it doesn't say anything about any temporal relationship to anything. that's why you can't switch some of the ff on your force you have to switch them all and why when a wild card copies that ability it copies the new ability not the old. it is a feat card but it acts more like a bfc card. an analogous situation is rip it up. you can play that card at the beginning of the game even if your only click with ss is the hulk and he doesn't have it yet. he gets it later and then, everytime he moves he gets a light weapon from outside the game. I don't think you could use both alt ff and thunderbolts unless you had at least one avengers team member AND one ff team member. I'm still wrong I know it, I just want to see if this truly can be read either way and is something they'll have to faq or if I don't understand some finer point of the rules about feat cards.
thanks again

You are correct that there is no temproal relationship written out on the card itself... however, if you read the general Feat rules (and associated FAQ entries), it specifies that figures must meet the prerequists of a Feat before the game begins in order to use that Feat (Its the same reason Atom can't use Taunt. Even though he's got Perplex and *could* theoretically Perplex up his range to 1, he doesn't have range anywhere on his dial to begin with.). A figure using the Thunderbolts card does not meet the prerequists for the alternate FF before the game begins. It is that simple.

what if the only click I have with super strength is the hulk and I want to play rip it up? Can I not play it because of the hulk's activation click? what if I have another character with super strength; I play rip it up, then when the hulk gets ss he can use it, right? so why wouldn't it work that I play the FF alternate ability card to use with my mr. fantastic to meet the pre-reqs, then play my thunderbolts card and give my ant man the ff TA. wouldn't ant-man then fall under the purview of the ff alt TA card since it says ALL friendly characters with the ff ta?
I guess what I'm asking is if I have one click that is already ff, couldn't I then use thunderbolts to give an avenger the alternate ff TA?
I really appreciate the help thank you.

First, Hulk meets the prerequisits for Rip It Up somewhere on his dial; he doesn't need any outside help in the way of Wildcarding, ICWO, or any other alternative way of gaining abilites. That Super Strength is right there on his own dial.

Mr. Fantastic can use the alternatenate TA just fine since he has the original FF TA right there on his dial. Meanwhile, Ant-man does not have the original FF TA. Instead he has the Avengers "A" that will have some ability yet to be determined thanks to the Thunderbolt Feat. Since he is not original FF, you can not assign the alternate FF Feat to the Ant-man. As the game begins, all Feats become active: Mr. Fantastic now has the alternate TA and Ant-man can choose any TA he wants (within the limits of the Thunderbolts Feat). If Ant-man chooses FF TA, it is the original TA because he missed his chance to qualify for the alternate TA (his chance was back before the game when Feat prerequists were checked against the figures).

thanks, I guess that does make the most sense.

You're actually contradicting yourself. What you're propsing is that it doesn't work cause the prerequiste is not met by anyon, but he said there's a invsible girl on the team. And the card affects the team ability as a whole, not the specific character. So as long as you have one real FF member, the whole ability will be changed, regardless of what character it's on or copied by.

yaaay!

No! With Invisble Woman and Antman on the team, you may attach alternate FF to Invisible Woman, because she meets the prerequisits before the game begins!!!!! Antman, even with Invisible Woman on the team, still does not meet the prerequisits before the game begins.

Use this check list:
1. Before game begins, attach Feats to figs that meet prequisits
2. Place figures on the board
3. Game begins
3a) Alternate TAs become active
3b) Declare TA Thunderbolts are copying

Since the alternate TAs are already active and the time to meet the prerequisits of the the alternate TAs has passed, Thunderbolts can not be alternate FF! If they declare the FF TA, they'll have the original TA.