Hello,

Iam wanting a ruling from Hair10 please,

Can you use Support and Defend togeather?

A player made someone use a 18 dfend from Invis on thor with a 12 defense.

So he rolled 9 and got 17 but didnt make the defend.

I personally think thats bogus because defend is a replacement vaule I always thought it was dial to dial for support?

Thanks

K

That is wrong. The wording in the rules is 'may use' it doesn't say they 'must' use it so if you wanted to roll for support, you have the printed Defense value to roll against, not the modified value.

Also under the Support power it states:

and Hair10 won't be making official rulings in these forums anymore to my understanding, you'll have to go right to the wizkids forum

Not going to happen on this forum anymore, unfortunately. If you want a genuine hair10 ruling you'll have to go to the Wizkids forum.

That said...

From the Universe PAC:
SUPPORT (optional): Give this character a power action and make a close combat attack against a target friendly character. Neither character may be adjacent to an opposing character. Ignore all modifiers to the close combat attack. If the attack succeeds, roll one six-sided die. The result equals the damage the
target character heals.

DEFEND (optional): Any friendly character adjacent to this character may use this character’s unmodified defense value instead of its own.

Defend replaces the DV, not modify it. Changing a DV with Defend, Defenders TA, JSA TA, or alternate FF TA is a perfectly valid strategy.


However, I am not sure what you mean with your example. Are you saying, that Thor was being healed by a figure with Support, but the opposing player had his Invisible Woman next to Thor and used Defend to make the Support roll miss? If that *is* what you are saying, there are a couple things wrong with that scenario. First, Defend only works on friendly adjacent characters (you can't use it on your opponent). Second, Support can only be used when both the Support figure and its target are not adjacent to opposing figures. So, even if Invisible Woman can't use her Defend on Thor, simply by being in base contact with him she is preventing Support from being used.

But Defend doesn't MODIFY a Defense Value, it REPLACES it... on top of that it's optional. So if Thor and IG were adjacent, you don't HAVE to use Defend to boost Thor to an 18 DV, but if someone then tries to shoot him you can be sure IG will lend a helping hand.

Unmodified means you discount any positives or negatives to the value, i.e. ES/D, RCE, CCE, effects of Perplex or ICwO. Replace, on the other hand, means you erase the value on the dial, and write in the new value. No modification is taking place. I believe it's somewhere in the FAQ, as well.

And to follow that up, if both Invisible Woman and Thor were on the same team, then Thor isn't obligated to use Invisible Woman's defense when he's being healed, if he doesn't want to. Defend is optional.

I think what he is saying, correct me if I am wrong, is that the opposing player was forcing the player with Defend to use that power. like so:

T=Thor
X= Empty
S= Support figure
D= Defend

XXXTDXX
XXXSXXX

So S had support and was trying to heal Thor. D had Defend. The opposing player said that since Thor was adjacnet to D he had to use the Defend Power, thereby making his defense 18. Now player S rolls to heal, with an attack of 8, rolls a 9 but misses because Thors defense is 18 with Defend. Which is totally incorrect. If Thors printed defense is 12, that's what the Support piece is try to roll against.

Hope that clears it up.

As everyone has said you don't HAVE to use it. Also it will work in the reverse. Say you have a high d figure like KC Green Lantern and a figure w/ Defend like the LE Sidewinder (15 I believe). Sidewinder can share his 15 w/ GL for the healing roll b/c Defend does not modify values but rather replaces them. This would work for the Defenders TA as well.