So.....

A recent feat has brought up the question:

Say I have Mr. Fantastic on my team, and my Opponent has Sue storm on their team.

We both play the F4 ATA card.

The replaced text on the card, per the current Marvel FAQ:

"Any member of this team may replace its defense value with the unmodified defense
value of any other member.”

Nowhere does it state that the other member must be a friendly team member, so I have to ask:

Can Mr. Fantastic use Sue Storm's 19 defense?

And if so, a compounding question:

A new feat was put up for Icons:

Siphon Power:

Choose a character. This character has the following team ability instead of any team ability for team symbols printed on its base:

Once at the beginning of each player’s turn, this character may choose and use on that turn any team ability that any figure on the battle map possesses. This team ability follows all other rules for the wild card team ability.

If my wildcard on my team has this feat, and my opponenet is using Sue Storm with the ATA F4 card, would my wildcard be able to use her 19 defense?

I wouldn't think so because Sue isn't on your team.

No. Your opponent isn't the one building his team with the alternate FF Feat card, you are. You missed the *first* line of the Fantastic Four Feat, the part that didn't get FAQ'd. "All friendly characters with the Fantastic Four TA...". Mr. Fantastic will have the old FF TA or, if your opponent also used alternate FF, it would only function on his/her friendly figures.



This could work, but only if you have other multiple figures with Siphon Power. Same reason I gave above.

On the second part, you'd only need one figure with Siphon Power. Once they've copied a TA from the other side, your other wildcards can copy it from them.

Hey NormalView does the Outsiders TA cancel the FF ATA or does the "replacement value" thingie nerf Outsiders?

I am not sure if that would work. Up until Icons at least, you never had a wild card trying to copy the TA from another wild card. There is no precedent for this. We'll have to wait and see what Hair10 rules on this.

Oh, and Thawmus, I when I said you'd need multiple figures with Power Siphon, I also meant that they'd only be able to share their own DVs. They still couldn't use Sue's DV (since she's not friendly).

Outsiders only prevents modifiers; it doesn't do anything to replacement values. Defend, JSA, Sinister Syndicate, et al. all still function just fine if the figure has been targeted by an Outsider (is that a real term?).

The full quote, though, is:

"All friendly characters with the Fantastic Four TA have the following TA instead of the Fantastic Four TA: "

This, to me, means that the "friendly" is only in reference to who has the effects of the TA changed when you play the card, and not who you can use it with, which is why I specifically stated in my example that both players are using the card. Both of them are using the new TA, so all of the F4 figures on the board would effectively have this new TA. Since the new TA makes no mention other than "Another member" of who can share the defense, I'm still thinking this is a toss-up.

Has this come up before?

I was afraid of that. Thanks, buddy!

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I'd still say no, though, if for no other reason than you can *always* cancel your TA. So Mr. Fantastic is using your 19 DV when you try and hit him? Sue turns off her TA and now Mr. Fantastic is SOL. And since optional powers and TAs turn back on at the beginning of the next turn, Sue's 19 DV is back and ready to go for all her friends to share when your opponent tries to attack.

But that's not really a "no" though. That's a "it'd be pointless to do so", and I agree

But for the sake of arguement, it's still feasible, right? And if so, it's also feasible for someone with SP to steal her 19 defense.......but she could turn it off for that, but they could steal Bat Ally, he turns THAT off.....he could steal only offensive powers and make it worthwile......

And then you have the question of whether your other wildcards can wildcard the wildcarded TA, or worse, the SP TA.....

this could get interesting......but I think our recent discussion just revealed that the SP card is only worthwile with Offensive TA's, not defensive, which is a bummer for 20 points

Well, you could still use the Batman Ally TA. That TA doesn't require that Batman actually uses it to let *other* Batman Allies use it.

The reason Alternate FF wouldn't work is because, with Sue's TA off, there isn't a 19 DV on the board anymore attached to that TA. You might still have the TA copied, there just isn't any DV *worth* copying .

aHA!! I get it now. So when you turn off a TA, it's still wildcardable, but the figure that has it turned off has it turned off. That's a LITTLE better, but it still doesn't help with JSA, Defenders, or F4.....but that still means that you could wildcard your opponent's mystics TA.....