This came up last night...

Player has Vendetta on Mr. Mind. He picks, say, Superman as his AE.
Then Mr. Mind MC's Thor to attack Superman. Does the attack by Thor agaisnt Supes get the +1 to AV, since it is part of the overall attack by Mr. Mind, and is the part of the attack that specfically targets Mr. Mind's chosen AE?

I ruled that Thor does get the +1.
Otherwise, Vendetta doesn't do any good on the glut of MC themed AE figs.

Thanks.

By the strict definition of the card, Thor's attack would not be increased. It says "The character(that Vendetta is assigned to) gets +1 to its attack value when making a close or ranged combat attack against the target." Mr. Mind is not making an attack on Superman, Thor is.

I have no idea if there's errata that says otherwise though.

I don't believe that Thor would get the +1 to AV against Superman.

Calling Vendetta useless on a MC AE figure isn't giving it enough credit; if the Thor in your example KOs the Big Blue Cheese while being MCed by Mr. Mind, you'd still get double KO points for him.

But awarding him the Vendetta points for the attack acknowledges that while it's Thor's hammer making the strike it's really Mr. Mind making the attack -- which seems to lend validity to AZS' call, doesn't it? (I must note that I don't get to play often and have yet to use Vendetta.)

With the nigh-blanket "MC figures cannot use feats" ruling, I'd say that the wind blows towards a MC-figure as unable to qualify for Vendetta under *any* circumstances.

You would certainly know better than I would, but it does beg the question of why Archenemy status was granted for Mr. Mind in the first place.

It's highly unlikely he'd get to personally deliver the killing blow to Capt. Marvel. Yeah, he could Perplex his 0 Damage to 1 and hope for a Critical Hit while coming in on Cap for a final click (at least on the vet, which ends with Toughness), but what's the chance? And does that reflect the way he works -- well, pre-emergence from that chrysalis at the end of 52. Using puppets is mostly how he works. The AE status really only seems to be of benefit to Capt. Marvel.

Whichever way it falls, it's an interesting topic.

What? Also, huh?

My opinion...

Thor would not get the +1 as he's not using the Vendetta feat.

If Supes was KO'd by Thor, then Mister Mind would get the AE points. We've already got a precedent set that states (paraphrased)... "if a character affected by MC KO's another character, the controlling player receives victory points. If the KO'd character is an archenemy of the character usingn MC, the controllign player receives double the victory points, per the rules of archenemies".

I don't see how this would be different. While Thor isn't using the feat (and therefore, can't gain the +1) he doesn't need to be in order for Mister Mind (who is using the feat) to get AE points. Thor is just the "weapon" that Mister Mind is using to score the KO.





*More than you asked, but it was next in the line of questioning.

I was fairly certain that this was addressed way back in Infinity Challenge, where Professor X was matched up against Magneto. A figure that is MCed to KO the MCer's AE grants the controller the double KO AE points. I suppose I should look for a ruling citation...

It's still coming across as "a few of us agreed to this a long time ago" more than anything else.

If it's effectively part of the FAQ, that's fine; ultimately all rules are made up. Still, Thor seems to be shifting from being a weapon (Mr. Mind gets the AE bonus) to being his own character (he's not entitled to the +1 because the card isn't on him, as if he's acting on his own) at someone's whim.

I understand that the solution (what Hair's laid out) may ultimately prove to simply be pragmatic, it's just that it's not something that appears to be self-evident.

Hint: Check the HC General Errata & Clarifications, under "Mind Control".

And there it is. So, the Mind Controller gaining the victory points and any AE bonus is established. We're back to the original question, though, of whether or not a mind-controlled Thor is in all respects a tool or not. Er.... that is to say...

My opinion is that if one part of the feat works than the whole thing should. It should be noted however that my opinion counts for very little.

I take it that the point Hair and others are making here is that Vendetta shouldn't work for a Mind Controlled attacker, period. He gets the AE points because that much has been decided for Mind Controllers using a catspaw, but the +1 advantage granted by Vendetta won't apply... which is to say Vendetta is completely wasted on a Mind Controller unless he's planning on delivering the coup de grace with his own hand.

I understand the proposition, it's just that it's not something that seems at all defined, which is what made this an interesting question in the first place.

That's what I was going with.

If the aspect of Mr. Mind getting AE points as part of the Feat is in effect, they why wouldn't the +1 to AV also be? Ultimately, it is still Mr. Mind making the attack on Superman, it just has an added element (Thor.)