Why does everyone in this set start with a 16 or 17 defense? Leaving out anybody with impervious or invulnerability...


Multiplex (super tough) - 16

The Question (tough gal, some fighting experience) - 17 defense

Gotham Detective (cop, probably tougher than your average joe) - 17 defense

Two-Face (decent fighter) - 17 defense

Kid Devil (bulletproof) - 17 defense

Riddler (terrible fighter) - 16 defense

Human Bomb - 17 defense

Plasmus (bullets and fists go right through him) - 17 defense

Batman (super suit, very agile) - 17 defense

Man Bat Assassin - 16 defense

Miss Martian (super speed, super tough, invisible, shape changing, invulnerable, stretchy) - 16 defense

Hitman (x-ray vision, pretty good at hand to hand) - 16 defense

Nightshade (teleporter, darkness manipulation) - 16 defense

Amon Sur (bulletproof forcefield) - 17 defense

Lightning Lord - 17 defense

Zoom (at his top speed, he's so fast that the Flash can't even see him, catches supersonic boomerangs, dodges lightning while ranting) - 17 defense

Element Lad - 17 defense

Penguin (short guy with an umbrella) - 17 defense

Cosmic King - 17 defense

Calculator (got beat up by a crippled Barbra Gordon, sits behind a desk all day) - 16 defense

Yellow Lantern - 17 defense

Circe (teleporter, incredibly powerful magic, immortal) - 17 defense

Black Manta (super strong, armored) - 17 defense

Mad Hatter (midget who even Robin says is a complete wimp) - 16 defense

Batgirl (great martial artist trained by Batman) - 17 defense

Despero - 17 defense

The Flash - 18 defense

Saturn Queen - 16 defense

The Joker - 16 defense

Firefly (dude with a flying suit) - 16 defense

Scandal Savage (crazy good fighter, tough too) - 17 defense

Floronic Man (you can't kill a vegetable by shooting it in the head) - 17 defense

Chang Tzu - 15 defense

Lashina (bulletproof, dang fast) - 17 defense

Ghost Fox Killer - 17 defense

Johnny Sorrow (can phase, you can't risk looking at his face) - 16 defense

Captain Gordon (pretty tough cop) - 16 defence

Ventriloquist (wimpy guy with a puppet) - 16 defense (toughness? )

Manhunter (super tough robots) - 17 defense

Street thug - 15 defense



Now some of these people also have toughness or super senses but even considering that...shouldn't some of these characters not have the same defenses?

Should a guy who gets beat up by a cripple and another guy who gets beat up by a kid in a cape really have only one less defense than a guy who beats up on the entire Justice League and a goddess?

uhmmmm...and now for something completely different: confuse the cat :cross-eye

I've said it in a few posts, this set is alot like sinister as spidermans villians are similar in power level to batmans. Also the set is full of second string attackers and support figures.

seems to me that someone was watching a lot of DBZ when they were making this set...

Why leave them out?

Now compare the attacks and see how many of them start with a 9 attack.

Its Seth's Cookie cutter design 9 attack 17 Def.

I am hoping the new designer mixes things around.

the only one I expect with any certain variance will be the Superboy prime

FINALLY!!!! A new DC set that will get pounded into the ground by the previous Marvel set and its high attack values!!!!

How many Wonder Women do you think we will see in floor and constructed play?

Out with the old, in with the new. Higher D values mean more players will go out and try and buy these up, often w/o looking at the bigger picture - Attacks/Powers. Throw a couple of GC Cops out to chew up attacks for cheap?

I think it's about time they start to back off of the 18's. Seems like everyone had them in the last couple sets.

Kind of surprised about Superman Prime and his lack of high defense numbers though.

You mean there might be games where figs get hit?

YES!!

'Cause most folks start with a 9 attack. You need figures to work around an average chance to hit, as otherwise, they aren't worth playing. Currently, the most common starting attack number is 9. Which means you need a 7 to hit someone with a 16 defense (~58%, which is not horrible) and an 8 to hit a 17 defense (~41%, which means you will miss more often than not).

If defense numbers were much higher, all those 9 attacks would be essentially unplayable; if your opponents all have an 18 or 19 defense, your 9 attack means that you'll miss most of the time. Which is bad.

That everyone has a 16 or 17 defense also means that you can judge higher attack numbers as more useful--a 10 attack is pretty good; an 11 attack is fantastic (which is why folks tend to rely on figures with 10-11 attack as their main hitters). If everyone had a 19 defense, say, 11 attack wouldn't even be that good.

So you can certainly give folks a higher or lower defense, but as, like, 16.5 is the average defense number, you know that a 14 defense is really low and going to mean that everyone and their mom is going to hit you while a 19 defense is incredibly high and most folks are going to miss you the majority of the time (until they get their attack Perplexed up 3 times, which is why Perplex is so ridiculously strong).

-Peter

I agree. Except if you give characters like Mad Hatter and Calculator who deserve 14 defenses 16 defenses and you give characters like Zoom and Cersei that deserve 19 defenses 17 defenses, you can't tell which character is supposed to be the one everyone and their mom could hit and who is the one that is going to be missed the majority of the time.

They all end up being the same, dodging about half the time, which is silly imo.

This set, it seems, is all about a downturn in power, an ebbing of the creep so frequently complained about. JL sported a fair deal of 18 DVs, M&M's trademark DV was 17 with ES/D (all the X-Men had it, it seemed) and Crisis... Well, Crisis was just nutty. SI was similarly nutty, with plenty of 18 DVs just hanging out, and it looks like AA is attempting to affect a slight downgrade.

It's not the average defense being 16 or 17 that bugs me. Or even a lot of the figures having it that bugs me.

It's figures that should have a 4 or 5 point difference in defense having the same defense that's annoying.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

I haven't seen the dials yet, but I'm happier with 16/17 defenses than 18 defenses.

The real annoyance for me is when using figures that have Attack values that drop like rocks, and then facing figures that (if not stealthed) routinely have 17/18 defenses. I recently played a pretty bad team (Marvel's Unrestricted "Animals") in which the key to winning was essentially Perplexing Devil Dinosaur&Moon-Boy's defense up each turn.