Hello Everyone,
I was wondering if a Flier that has charge wants to charge an opposing character while carrying a friendly in what sequence will come first. I thought the minus 2 for carry then the half movement in charge. I'm not quite sure if im right but that's why I look for answers here from all of you. Please help me Thanks

When a replacement value (the halving from Charge) and a modifier (the -2 from Carry) occur at the same time (which is the case here), the rule is "replace then modify".

So you'd first halve the speed value, and then modify it by -2.

Unless of course it involves a feat. then it is "Modify then replace"

Not necessarily. It depends on which combat value is affected:

"Feats that modify a character’s combat values modify those values only when the character is using the feat.
If a feat modifies a character’s speed value or range value, apply any modifications to those combat values immediately before giving the action to use the feat.
If a feat modifies a character’s attack value, defense value, or damage value, apply any modifications to those combat values during the attack before the attack roll, but after applying any replacement values."

(from the rulebook, p. 20)

I think he might also be thinking of ICwO + JSA(/Defenders/AFF/Defend/etc.).

If that is the case, it comes down to timing. The key is that you replace, then modify when things occure at the same time.

So both the replacement and modifier happen in the same time. Like say my character will charge 1/2 it's movement and then -2 for the movement again for carrying. Am I right.

They happen at the same time because of the descriptions.

"CHARGE Give this character a power action; halve its speed value for the action..."

"CARRY...If this character carries a character during an action, modify this character’s speed value by –2 until the end of the action..."

Both effects happen when you give the action, so they are happening at the same time. Since it is the same time, the replacement happens first.

I thought JSA/Defenders used the unmodified value for sharing, which would make that moot.

The donor shares his unmodified value, but that doesn't prevent further modifications to that on the recipient.

For example, Valkyrie has an 18 defense printed on her dial. I Perplex up her defense to 19. If she passes her defense to Bucky (on his first click), he gets the 18, not the 19.

It doesn't matter, he still get smacked for 4.

Now, Bucky has ESD. She once again donates her defense to him. He again gets the 18 from her, but now his ESD takes it up to 20.

This is because the replacement from the shared defense and the modification from ESD occur simultaneously. You therefore replace, then modify.




Now, say that we go back to the beginning of that earlier example. Instead of Perplexing Valkyrie, I boost Bucky's defense (16 + 1 = 17). Now, Valkyrie passes her defense to Bucky. He gets her 18, and this overlays that Perplex.






And the useful fun fact of the day is....

You can use the unmodified passing to remove Perplexes which have been imposed upon you.

You want to attack my Valkyrie, so you Perplex her defense down three times (18 - 3 = 15). Now, when you declare the attack on her, she shares her unmodified 18 over to Bucky. He can then share back his new unmodifed 18 to Valkyrie. :D

Are you sure you are right about this. From the FF-rulebook p 6: "When
a value would be both replaced and modified, replace the value and then
modify it."
I know your argument would be that you are right because of the timing, but the rulebook does not talk about timing. It just state that the modify would be last.

I'm 100% positive.

"When a value would be both replaced and modified, replace the value and then modify it."


It isn't explicit, but it is in there.

You apply the modifier and it is there. The combat value is now whatever it is. You have, for example, 18 defense. You do not have 16 with a +2 modifier. If you want to replace it at a later time, you would have to unmodify it, replace it, then remodify it.