I think I may have spotted a way in which a character with Passenger can carry a character whilst making a Lunge attack:

Lunge
Prerequisites: Close Combat Expert or Leap/Climb

Choose a Character
When the character is given an action, but before it makes a close combat attack, it can break away automatically and move up to 2 squares.

and also

Passenger
Prerequisites: Leap/Climb or Phasing/Teleport

Choose a character.

When this character uses Leap/Climb or Phasing/Teleport, it may carry a single character. After this character resolves an action using Passenger, it takes 1 pushing damage that ignores Willpower and team abilities.

not to mention

LEAP/CLIMB When you give this character a move action, it automatically breaks away and ignores the effects of characters, hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement (but it can’t end its movement on blocking terrain). When you give this character a close combat action, it can target a character regardless of the target’s elevation.

If the Lunging character possessed Leap/Climb and was making a close combat attack against a target on a different elevation, it would be using Leap/Climb. Therefore, it should be able to carry an adjacent friendly character during that Lunge with the Passenger feat.

Fun thought: Chase Batman uses From Among the Gargoyles to be in Stealth whilst on elevated terrain, attacks grounded characters with Leap/Climb, Flurries and Lunges before each opponent, and carries a friendly character while doing so.

Thoughts?

Leap/Climb, in this instance, would seem to me that it is only actually used during the attack itself. As such, I'd lean towards saying that Leap/Climb would not be used during the Lunge (since that occurs immediately before the attack).

I could be wrong here, but that's my take on this scenario.

What about the use of Lunge between two attacks of a character with Leap/Climb and Flurry (with the second attack, at least, made against a character on a different elevation)? That's movement during an attack in which you're using Leap/Climb.

No, that is still movement during an action, not an attack. You activate Flurry with a close combat action, then lunge before the first attack, then attack (potentially using L/C to hit a character at a different elevation, too), Lunge before the second attack, then attack again (and again, potentially using L/C).

There is still no actual movement during the attacks themselves.

Like I said, I don't know if this the way GD would actually rule on this, but that is my initial reaction.

I just want to point out that while Flurry is a close combat action, it cannot be used with Leap/Climb to attack a figure on a different elevation.


Flurry requires adjacency. Leap/Climb creates no adjacency.

Let's pretend we were talking about this situation last week

You know, for the sake of argument.

If I may offer a counter-argument: Lunge requires that the close combat attack be a legal one, and although it inserts a movement before said attack, the requirement for legality is only met if Leap/Climb is, in fact, being "used". You cannot, for instance, Lunge by giving an illegal attack (with exceptions for Shape Change and other intervening agents that can render illegal a declared target). I would fall down on the side of this as a "use of Leap/Climb" for the duration of the action, not merely for the attack, and thus applying the Passenger effect would be legit.

My $0.02.

It seems clear that when you give the character a close combat action, both Lunge and Leap/Climb should be triggered. Giving the character a close combat action meets the needs to use the feat and power. I'm not seeing why the character can't move the two squares before making the attack with Leap/Climb.

I never said it couldn't move; that's a given, it is part of the Lunge description.

What I did say, though, hinge on exactly when and how L/C is being used, though, and (by extension) how that would impact the activation of Passenger.


Since Passenger requires that Leap/Climb is used in order to activate the feat, in the situation described by the OP it would seem to me that L/C isn't actually used until the character attacks another character at a different elevation (in otherwords, after the movement caused by Lunge).

The character can Lunge the two squares before making a Leap/Climb attack. The question here is if movement by Lunge in order to make a Leap/Climb attack would also allow passenger to trigger.

I maybe wrong but if this combo is supposed to work, allowing someone to be carried during it will come with a modifier that will reduce the move to zero : just like hindering terrain effect on movement applies to this move, so should the Carry ability modifier, or am I missing something here ?

Actually, the carry modifier only affects the character's speed value. Lunge does no actually involve the character's speed value- it just gives them two extra squares of movement. So, carry would not affect the Lunge movement.

Edit: I think I was slightly off in my explanation of this. See Quebbster's post directly below mine.

Not really.
The 2 square modifier is just a limitation, not a replacement value. The -2 gets applied to the base speed value, so unless the figure has a speed value of 3 or less it shouldn't be an issue.

Sorry, I think I ended my post prematurely.

What I was meaning to say is that the Leap/Climb action has to be taking place in order to use Lunge... Lunge is taking place within the action, but before the attack. When the Leap/Climb action is given, both Lunge and Passenger are triggered. The character makes the two square movement, carries a buddy and makes the attack. Maybe laying this out in order would help us better.

1) Declare close combat action.
2) Declare use of Leap/Climb and Lunge with close combat action.
3) Declare use of Passenger with Leap/Climb.
4) Move 2 squares, carrying a friendly.
5) Make close combat attack.
6) Resolve attack.
7) Resolve action.
8) Leap/Climb character takes 1 pushing damage from Passenger.

Is that right?

That's one possible way to look at it, yes.

I am of the mind, though, that L/C isn't actually used until the attack is made. While a close combat action normally leads directly into a close combat attack, making the distinction between the two more or less meaningless, in this case we've got Lunge getting in the way of things and making the distinction important.

So the question really becomes when, exactly, is Leap/Climb used (because that is what Passenger requires)? If is considered used when the action itself is declared, Lunge could be combo'd with Passenger. If it is not used until the attack, the movement of Lunge has already passed by so Passenger has missed its opportunity to be activated.

You all know my thoughts for the moment; I could be wrong, but until I hear otherwise, this is the way I will rule this issue if it comes up at my venue.