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For example, a character with both of these feats and four tokens on Opportunist rolls a 7-8. If the character uses all four tokens to make the attack roll a 11-12 (depending on the 7-8), does this satisfy the requirements for And Stay Down! and make it a critical hit? Or does And Stay Down! need to have a natural roll of 11-12?
Thanks!
-Vos out.
Quinlan Vos: "Two Morgukai against one wounded Jedi? Seems unfair. Would it help if I closed my eyes?"
For example, a character with both of these feats and four tokens on Opportunist rolls a 7-8. If the character uses all four tokens to make the attack roll a 11-12 (depending on the 7-8), does this satisfy the requirements for And Stay Down! and make it a critical hit? Or does And Stay Down! need to have a natural roll of 11-12?
Thanks!
-Vos out.
Yup, that works just fine.
It does not work for regular crit hits because the rule book defines a critical hit as a roll of double sixes, and Opportunist does not change the actual roll, just the result. However, And Stay Down (and the Extraordinary Day BFC) redefines critical hits to be dependent on the result of the dice roll, thus making a change from Opportunist possible.
Personally, I don't think it's much to get excited about.
Neat? Yes. But it requires a 10 point feat (a good one, but still) to start with, plus either a BFC (that can only be played one round in a tournament setting) or another feat (6 more points). And even then, it's kind of situational: Would it be worth the sacrifices of a few Opportunist tokens to get a crit hit when if you rolled high enough to hit the target anyway?
...not to mention the inherent limitations in the feats...
Personally, I don't think it's much to get excited about.
Neat? Yes. But it requires a 10 point feat (a good one, but still) to start with, plus either a BFC (that can only be played one round in a tournament setting) or another feat (6 more points). And even then, it's kind of situational: Would it be worth the sacrifices of a few Opportunist tokens to get a crit hit when if you rolled high enough to hit the target anyway?
...not to mention the inherent limitations in the feats...
But you don't need to roll high enough to hit with "and stay down"
How many figures have Charge and Exploit? That's how many fig should use this combo.
So you can't use an object with this combo you can also quake with it.
It's not cheap "broken" but it is usable "broken".
But you don't need to roll high enough to hit with "and stay down"
True... but usually you need to roll a lot less than 11 to hit with the attack. Is it worth spending extra Opportunist tokens just to deal extra damage?
I'll roll up with Gamora hit you with Blades+1 and Exploit. Worth it as long as I'm not taking more then 2 off Opportunist
Take 2
I'll lunge/flurry with Iron Fist and make both attacks hit for 4 damage. Worth it for 4 of my Opportunists I think.
It is very very usable but costly (like Alpha Oracle on "In Contact with Oracle")
I'll roll up with Gamora hit you with Blades+1 and Exploit. Worth it as long as I'm not taking more then 2 off Opportunist
Take 2
I'll lunge/flurry with Iron Fist and make both attacks hit for 4 damage. Worth it for 4 of my Opportunists I think.
It is very very usable but costly (like Alpha Oracle on "In Contact with Oracle")
Just to make things clear: Taking only two tokens mean you are rolling 9 or better - enough to hit a 20 DV with Gamora's and Iron Fist's starting AV of 11. Heck, even at their lowest AVs a roll of 9 means Gamora hits a DV of 18 and Iron Fist one of 17...
But you only roll 9 or better on every fourth roll or so... That's why I think this is not worth building around. I'll happily use the combo if I happen to have the points to spare though.
When determining if something is compatible with another power, ability, feat, etc., look for important game terms. This will answer many questions and help you understand the game better.
Let's look at both feat cards, and see why they would be compatible. I'll use italics to highlight the important terms to determine compatibility.
Quote
And Stay Down!
Prerequisites: Exploit Weakness or Super Strength
Choose a character.
When the character is not using an object as part of a close combat attack, an attack roll result of 11 or 12 is a critical hit.
Remember, an Attack Roll and Attack Value are two separate things. AR + AV = ARR. The card states Attack Roll Result. This phrase is key in determining if it will work with Opportunist
Now let's look at the Opportunist feat:
Quote
Opportunist
Prerequisites: Charge or Running Shot or Willpower; point value of 50 points or more.
Choose a character.
If the character has zero action tokens at the end of your turn (before tokens are removed from characters), put an opportunist token on this card if there are four or fewer opportunist tokens on this card.
When the character or an adjacent character makes an attack, after making the roll you can remove any number of opportunist tokens from this card and modify the result of the attack roll by +1 for each token removed. If opportunist tokens are removed when another character makes an attack, deal the character 1 unavoidable damage after the action resolves.
I italicized a few words and phrases for the Opportunist card. Note the 'result of the attack roll', i.e. ARR (Attack Roll Result). This is the key phrase that denotes compatibility between the two feats. Now, had And Stay Down! stated that an 'Attack Roll' of 11 or 12 is a critical hit, it would not be compatible with Opportunist, since an Attack Roll and Attack Roll Result are two separate things as shown above.
I also italicized the word 'modify'. This can play an important roll at times. Since Opportunist modifies something, it is subject to the Rule of 3. The Rule of 3 supersedes all other HeroClix rules. You can have up to 5 Tokens on the Opportunist card, but when used, they will be subject to the Rule of 3. This doesn't mean you can't use them all at once though. For example: Iron Man has had his AV Perplexed down by (minus) -2. He can use all 5 tokens to void out the -2, and then increase his AV by +3 more, for a total of a +5 modifier. The Rule of 3 cap doesn't apply to the modifiers that can be given, it applies to the base value printed on the dial.
Also notice that highlighted 'deal the character' in regards to who receives the damage. I believe I'm correct on this portion... The character who would take the 1 unavoidable damage would be the character assigned the feat. I remember reading that when feat states 'the character', it always refers to the character assigned the feat, but at quick glance, I can't find this.
Wow you are incorrect on sooo many levels on this one. Let me see.
Quote : Originally Posted by VGA d1sc1pL3
Remember, an Attack Roll and Attack Value are two separate things. AR + AV = ARR. The card states Attack Roll Result. This phrase is key in determining if it will work with Opportunist
Now let's look at the Opportunist feat:
I italicized a few words and phrases for the Opportunist card. Note the 'result of the attack roll', i.e. ARR (Attack Roll Result). This is the key phrase that denotes compatibility between the two feats. Now, had And Stay Down! stated that an 'Attack Roll' of 11 or 12 is a critical hit, it would not be compatible with Opportunist, since an Attack Roll and Attack Roll Result are two separate things as shown above.
Attack roll is a game term, Attack Roll Result is not. The term you are looking for is "Attack roll: The result of rolling 2d6 when a character makes a close combat or ranged combat attack". Right....it was in the GLOSSARY
I also italicized the word 'modify'. This can play an important roll at times. Since Opportunist modifies something, it is subject to the Rule of 3. The Rule of 3 supersedes all other HeroClix rules. You can have up to 5 Tokens on the Opportunist card, but when used, they will be subject to the Rule of 3. This doesn't mean you can't use them all at once though. For example: Iron Man has had his AV Perplexed down by (minus) -2. He can use all 5 tokens to void out the -2, and then increase his AV by +3 more, for a total of a +5 modifier. The Rule of 3 cap doesn't apply to the modifiers that can be given, it applies to the base value printed on the dial.
all the bold here is wrong.... Opportunist add to the Attack Roll that is not something that is limited by the rule of 3. See Norms post about this in the past.
The character who would take the 1 unavoidable damage would be theAlso notice that highlighted 'deal the character' in regards to who receives the damage. I believe I'm correct on this portion... character assigned the feat. I remember reading that when feat states 'the character', it always refers to the character assigned the feat, but at quick glance, I can't find this.
Right, all wrong again
Opportunist: If opportunist tokens are removed when another
character makes an attack, deal the character 1 unavoidable
damage after the action resolves. The other character takes the damage....... not sure how that's not clear....