A friend just hit White Lantern Green Arrow for 4 damage. Green Arrow landed on live after 2 clicks. The knockback rules say "a character is moved back one square for each damage taken". Live says "when turning the dial, if this clck is revealed due to damage taken from an opponent's attack, stop turning the dial".

As there is nothing in Live's wording that reduces the damage taken from 4, I'd argue Green Arrow is knocked back the full four squares - in this case into a wall for the KO from knockback. However I can also see the arguement for only 2 squares of knockback, which wouldn't hit the wall.

Which knockback amount is correct?

You answered your own question. He never actually took 4 full damage. He just took 2. So he would take the 2 damage, LIVE kicks in and he takes the 2 knockback.

Based on the ruling with Bag-Man, I'd say that he would be considered to take the 4 full clicks.

That said, I'll check on that.

PG:
It refers to KO, but it's really a similar situation.

IMO Live would stop the 3rd and 4th click from physically(clicking) dealing damage but the damage would be dealt still. Knockback would be 4 squares, and as a result he would hit the wall taking the additional 1 damage from the wall and KO'ing him. But I think Harpua is gonna ask around a bit more for ya!

Thank you for the quick replies. There were cheers and boos for both both versions from our respective sides (though we'd continued the game with GA KOed before I even took time to post).

My reading continues to be that Green Arrow takes four damage but only spins the dial for two of them. I did note that the glossary defines damage taken as "the number of clockwise clicks applied to a target", which would be only two.

I've been against the Bombastic Bag-Man ruling (maybe this can result in it being fixed ), but I also think this is a different situation. In the Bombastic Bag-Man situation the only thing stopping the dial from being clicked was KO. Had it not been for the KO, you wouldn't have stopped clicking the dial. Here, LIVE! actually does stop the clicking of the dial. Since the character stopped taking damage, the amount of knockback should be reduced too.

Well i'd think it would be what damage was taken. One, Two, LIVE! You took two clicks of damage, and are knocked back 2 squares. This shouldn't be hard.

I agree with this, except I think the Bag-Man ruling is right on.

What is the bagman ruling?

If Bag-Man takes 4 (or whatever number you care to use) damage, then he takes all 4 damage... even if he's on his last click. While this goes for ANY character, it is particularly relevant for Bag-Man, since his trait will dole out damage based on how much damage he takes.

Whatever final ruling we get on LIVE! and knockback, the same will apply to JL Doomsday's UNSTOPPABLE, correct?

My own thought would have been that when you stop turning the dial the figure stops taking damage, but that's not the Bagman ruling so...

The question is, does LIVE reduce damage taken? And I mean that in the same way toughness reduces damage dealt. Does the power actually reduce the value? I could see it go either way.

That would be a safe assumption, yes.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: there is nothing in the rules that states, beyond any reproach, the as soon as KOs appear you are supposed to stop turning the dial. At best, it is hinted at. And for every example produced in support of that interpretation, one supporting the idea that the dial would keep turning can also be produced. That's one of the reasons this ruling came down the way it did; nothing says the dial is supposed to immediately stop turning just because KOs appear.

OK, nothing says stop turning the dial when KOs appear. So we have an official ruling based on "the dial keeps turning." The logical extension of that is that if the damage would turn the dial through KO back to "live" the figure would not be KO'd, correct? Because the intervening KOs don't matter, it's only what shows when the dial stops turning. And if I don't stop turning the dial when KOs appear...

The only other time it would matter, Hela, it was ruled the other way. In my mind, it's better to have consistent rulings between Hela and Bombastic Bag-Man than the inconsistency we have now.

I think the rulebook also strongly implies that you stop turning the dial when KOs appear.

From p. 4 of the 2010 Core Rulebook:
"Immediately removed from the game" means stop doing what you are doing, i.e., stop clicking the dial and remove the figure from the game. But we're just rehashing old arguments now.

And as I said before I don't think the Bombastic Bag-Man ruling applies here. With LIVE!, the special power specifically does tell you to stop turning the dial. Your argument regarding Bombastic Bag-Man ends in a completely different result in this case.