charge says when using this power you cant be knocked back, is that when it is present on the dial, or only during a charge.

i.e.

The Batman is sitting on the brim of elevated terrain, Flashpoint flash goes to knock him off it with his sudden stop ability, can he do this?

Characters with Charge ignore knock-back. So if Charge is showing on the dial and the figure is targeted by some game effect that would cause knock-back, the knock-back doesn't occur. Does that help?

I suppose the problem i have lies in the wording. It says using charge, not possessing charge.

If it is present on the dial, the character can use charge (or if it is granted as part of a Special Power). Even the "passive" use of charge is still using charge.

1. Attacker rolls and hits with doubles.
2. Damage is applied to hit character by clicking the dial. Charge (or an ability that says "may use charge") comes up.
3. Since charge is on the dial, the hit character uses charge to ignore knockback.

I get it now, I still just guess that I have a problem with them both defining possess and use in the rulebook and specifically saying "use" on the power and abilities card. One of the idioms I suppose i'll just have to deal with. It is like with the JLA Wally West Flash's special move He may use hypersonic AND teleport. Why not save the confusion and use the word OR?

That was a conscious choice on the part of GD.

They found that if the word "or" was used, it led some to think that they had to choose: he could use one or the other and if they chose, say, HSS, the Flash couldn't ever use P/T.

Think of it this way, you've got a dial that shows green on and , orange on , and grey on . I can't speak for you, but if I had to describe that dial, I'd say that character can use Charge, Super Strength, Toughness, and Leadership.

I think there's an error there. You check for Charge (or other powers/effects preventing KB) prior to the damage being applied. You check for Combat Reflexes (or other powers/effects that prevent KB damage) after the damage is applied. Or so I understood.

Right. I missed that before.

Stuff that prevents knock back (whatever that "stuff" happens to be) is checked when the knock back is generated (AKA at the time doubles are rolled, Force Blast is used, etc).

If the dial does not currently show Charge when the doubles are rolled, knock back is not ignored. Doesn't matter if Charge pops up after the damage is taken or not.

Thanks for the correction.

So any knockback or damage dealt into a wall or off elevated terrain, would not come into effect until after the dial is turned from the original attack roll/damage dealt?

The reason I ask we get the same arguement from time to time about it because Charge is now showing, I ignore Knockback. Or the same could be said about when Combat Reflexes is showing after the attack roll or after damage is dealt. Do I take the Knockback damage and the knockback?

You check for things that would prevent Knock-back when the attack occurs. You check for things that would effect damage from Knock-back when that damage would occur.

You attack Ultraguy, hitting him with a roll of doubles. Check now to see if there's anything that would prevent knock-back: Charge for example. He has nothing to prevent it, so give him the attack damage and then calculate the distance he'll be knocked back. It's 4 squares, but after 3 squares he reaches the edge of the map (or a wall, or falls off the edge of a roof). So now check to see if he has anything that will prevent or reduce the damage: Toughness or Combat Reflexes for example.
Does that help?

You determine Knock Back before damage is dealt. So if they have a power that would ignore it, you check before dealing damage. And if they have Combat Reflexes before you can choose to take knock back from a character.

You determine Knock Back Damage after damage is dealt. So if they wind up with Toughness or Combat Reflexes then they can potentially soak/ignore the damage.

Now with Combat Reflexes, if you choose to take Knock Back and you then loose Combat Reflexes you will take knock back damage.

Hope this clears it up for you.