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In a game last week, this guy uses charge to attack, my fig is in stealth. I said the attack can't be made due to me being in stealth, but he said that it only applies to ranged attacks. So after a few mild back & forths my ruling won. So I ask ya'll who was right in this matter. Thanks
In a game last week, this guy uses charge to attack, my fig is in stealth. I said the attack can't be made due to me being in stealth, but he said that it only applies to ranged attacks. So after a few mild back & forths my ruling won. So I ask ya'll who was right in this matter. Thanks
He was. Stealth only prevents lines of fire from being drawn.
Longest-Reigning Drunken HeroClix Champion - anyone got a liver?
In a game last week, this guy uses charge to attack, my fig is in stealth. I said the attack can't be made due to me being in stealth, but he said that it only applies to ranged attacks. So after a few mild back & forths my ruling won. So I ask ya'll who was right in this matter. Thanks
Just out of curiosity, what in the rules made you think this could be the case? Do you think close combat attacks require LoF?
But...Nightcrawler really has been my favorite character for years.
from 2011 rule book
A close combat action can be given to a character to activate a close combat attack that targets an adjacent opposing character. A ranged combat action can be given to a character to activate a ranged combat attack that targets one or more non-adjacent opposing characters that are within range and line of fire.
from 2011 PAC:
STEALTH When it is not your turn, hindered lines of fire drawn to this character are blocked.
One does NOT need to draw a Line Of Fire when making a close combat attack. So stealth would have no affect agianst a close combat attack.
In warmachine you can't use a charge attack against a character in stealth because you can't draw line of fire to them. I think the player may be thinking of something like this. It's not the close combat attack that is the issue, it's declaring a charge against a figure you can't target.
But as said in heroclix of course you can.
Iron River Read my wife's comic or I will say mean things about your dog.
I suckered these guys into playing: Feedback Damage
I can understand the "real-world" reasoning of a charging figure being unable to target a stealthed figure. Why does Black Adam think that there's anything remotely suspicious behind that gumball machine on the other side of the Daily Planet sculpture (that he only knows is there because he lost a quarter in it two games ago), to cause him to run around it and bash whatever he finds?
I'm glad that HeroClix works the way it does though. Stealth is strong enough as it is.
I can understand the "real-world" reasoning of a charging figure being unable to target a stealthed figure. Why does Black Adam think that there's anything remotely suspicious behind that gumball machine on the other side of the Daily Planet sculpture (that he only knows is there because he lost a quarter in it two games ago), to cause him to run around it and bash whatever he finds?
I'm glad that HeroClix works the way it does though. Stealth is strong enough as it is.
I see this 'reasoning' a lot. The thing is, it's completely wrong. Stealth does not = invisibility. All Stealth does is provide cover for a character. You can 'see' the character over there hiding behind said gumball machine, but you just cannot get a clear 'bead' on them (or clear Line of Fire) in order to be able to target them. It's really that simple. That's why you know where they are, and are able to Charge or HSS in to attack them.
Trade to Canada. We're friendly, and we love Beavers..........
from 2011 PAC:
STEALTH When it is not your turn, hindered lines of fire drawn to this character are blocked.
.
why do you say "when it is not your turn"
i thought it was on everyones turn even your own, unless you cancel.
i.e. you can't perplex your own person in stealth unless you cancel stealth which means everyone can see you until the beginning of your next turn. am i messing this up?
why do you say "when it is not your turn"
i thought it was on everyones turn even your own, unless you cancel.
i.e. you can't perplex your own person in stealth unless you cancel stealth which means everyone can see you until the beginning of your next turn. am i messing this up?
That's how it worked prior to the 2011 Rules Update. Now Stealth works as PONX posted.
I see this 'reasoning' a lot. The thing is, it's completely wrong. Stealth does not = invisibility. All Stealth does is provide cover for a character. You can 'see' the character over there hiding behind said gumball machine, but you just cannot get a clear 'bead' on them (or clear Line of Fire) in order to be able to target them. It's really that simple. That's why you know where they are, and are able to Charge or HSS in to attack them.
Okay, I'll bite. What you are describing is a modifier to defense to make it more difficult to hit someone—not impossible (from range). Impossible DOES equal Invisibility in game terms. The gumball machine provides cover for Blue Beetle making it more difficult to hit him from range, but Batman can't even be targeted. He's invisible for all intents and purposes—and would certainly be an expert at "Hole in the Wall"—with his ability to contort his body into odd shapes. Perhaps your "reasoning" deserves quotation marks as well? Also, it's not like Superheros are particularly concerned about collateral damage—they'd take the shot at Batman THROUGH the gumball machine—obliterating both in the process.
Your example also doesn't take into account the ability for a charger like Black Adam to run from around a corner (where he can't see even a non-stealthed target) to bash some dude hiding behind an engine block.
Maybe his charge represents him going "on patrol" in this case? A well-anticipated patrol, but Black Adam must have a knack of where to find targets. He has the wisdom of Solomon after all.
The rub with any non-blinded game is that we, as players, know exactly what we're up against. I'm GLAD it's this way though. The alternative would be incredibly complicated or best left to a computerized version.
Okay, I'll bite. What you are describing is a modifier to defense to make it more difficult to hit someone—not impossible (from range). Impossible DOES equal Invisibility in game terms. The gumball machine provides cover for Blue Beetle making it more difficult to hit him from range, but Batman can't even be targeted. He's invisible for all intents and purposes—and would certainly be an expert at "Hole in the Wall"—with his ability to contort his body into odd shapes. Perhaps your "reasoning" deserves quotation marks as well? Also, it's not like Superheros are particularly concerned about collateral damage—they'd take the shot at Batman THROUGH the gumball machine—obliterating both in the process.
Actually it's not that at all. Stealth is not being able to draw a clear LoF. Period. It has nothing to do with Hindering terrain modifiers. A non Stealthed character is simply clearly visible to be able to draw a LoF to, but harder to hit because you have to shoot through the object/terrain in 'front' of them. Again, Stealth does not = invisibility. They 'know' that someone is there, they just cannot pinpoint exactly where they are in order to get a clear shot at them.
You are trying to equate this to 'real life comics' but it doesn't work like that, so Superheros (or villains) and what they'd 'really' do doesn't have any bearing on this game. This is far from a comic accurate simulation game. Yes this game has heroes and villains. Yes they have 'super powers'. That's about where it ends though.
Quote : Originally Posted by domino33
Your example also doesn't take into account the ability for a charger like Black Adam to run from around a corner (where he can't see even a non-stealthed target) to bash some dude hiding behind an engine block. Maybe his charge represents him going "on patrol" in this case? A well-anticipated patrol, but Black Adam must have a knack of where to find targets. He has the wisdom of Solomon after all.
Or his teammates have relayed to him that they've spotted someone around said corner, and that it's not one of them ergo it must be an enemy, and that he needs to get there pronto. Or he 'heard' something and decided to investigate what it might be I can come up with any number of scenarios for 'why' BA goes Charging around a corner 'blindly'. Since he's on the map, he 'knows' he's in a battle and he's out looking for trouble.
Quote : Originally Posted by domino33
The rub with any non-blinded game is that we, as players, know exactly what we're up against. I'm GLAD it's this way though. The alternative would be incredibly complicated or best left to a computerized version.
I agree, this game couldn't work any other way, but that's also one of the reasons what it will never be close to being 'comic accurate'.
Trade to Canada. We're friendly, and we love Beavers..........
why do you say "when it is not your turn"
i thought it was on everyones turn even your own, unless you cancel.
i.e. you can't perplex your own person in stealth unless you cancel stealth which means everyone can see you until the beginning of your next turn. am i messing this up?
FYI, you can no longer cancel or cancel anything really.
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“I used to be a heroclix player like you, then I took an arrow in the knee.”
Actually it's not that at all. Stealth is not being able to draw a clear LoF. Period. It has nothing to do with Hindering terrain modifiers. A non Stealthed character is simply clearly visible to be able to draw a LoF to, but harder to hit because you have to shoot through the object/terrain in 'front' of them. Again, Stealth does not = invisibility. They 'know' that someone is there, they just cannot pinpoint exactly where they are in order to get a clear shot at them.
I agree that Stealth has nothing to do with terrain modifiers, but what you describe is probably better simulated BY a terrain modifier. A non-Stealth character gets the traditional +1 modifier to defense versus range while a Stealthy character might get a +3—but still be visible. As it is, Stealth turns a hindered LoF into a blocked one. You are correct that he's not technically invisible, but he may as well be given that a ranged attack is impossible (to non SA/Ultimates users). Please note that I'm not saying that Stealth should be changed to what I described above.
Quote : Originally Posted by W.I.T
You are trying to equate this to 'real life comics' but it doesn't work like that, so Superheros (or villains) and what they'd 'really' do doesn't have any bearing on this game. This is far from a comic accurate simulation game. Yes this game has heroes and villains. Yes they have 'super powers'. That's about where it ends though.
I'm not really. I understand that HeroClix is far from a simulation. It's a fun game that does a nice job of recreating the feel of a comic book battle. Its rules and assumptions make just enough sense that they don't typically kick you out of the make believe and maintain the flavor. Real life has very little to do with it. <insert 2002 Wasp carrying Hulk argument here.>
Quote : Originally Posted by W.I.T
Or his teammates have relayed to him that they've spotted someone around said corner, and that it's not one of them ergo it must be an enemy, and that he needs to get there pronto. Or he 'heard' something and decided to investigate what it might be I can come up with any number of scenarios for 'why' BA goes Charging around a corner 'blindly'. Since he's on the map, he 'knows' he's in a battle and he's out looking for trouble.
Good point. As Xena taught me "A wizard did it." is always applicable.
AND to get back on topic to the OP, as everyone has said your argument was incorrect. A charging character can attack a stealthed character in hindering.