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It's interesting that people are still talking about the "new 52" from DC. Of course, since we already know that 6 books have been cancelled (Mr. Terrific, Static Shock, Men of War, Blackhawks, OMAC, and Hawk & Dove), that really makes it now the "new 46". I know, DC thinks adding six more titles (two of which feature characters from DC's fourth Earth to be called Earth Two... it's not your father's Earth Two-- heck, it's not YOUR Earth Two) keeps them at 52, but those latest six books aren't part of the same wave. I'm interested in seeing how many of those 52 books will continue to be published for the long haul.
DC has said that their cancellation criterion is having sales under 20k. Of the remaining "new 46", how many are below that line right now? Would it surprise you to find out that THIRTEEN books (of the not-yet-cancelled 46) are below that line? Here's a list of these books along with their sales for February:
1. Captain Atom (which somehow missed being part of the Cancelled Six) (13,698)
2. Voodoo (14,780)
3. Blue Beetle (15,331)
4. I, Vampire (16,338)
5. Grifter (16,251)
6. Resurrection Man (16,712)
7. Legion Lost (17,502)
8. Fury of Firestorm (17,246)
9. DCU Presents (18,169)
10. Frankenstein, Agent of SHADE (18,417)
11. Deathstroke (19,175)
12. Batwing (19,479)
13. Savage Hawkman (19,184)
And ones that are getting close to the 20k mark are:
14. Legion of Super-Heroes (21,085)
15. Demon Knights (21,128)
Some of those are not all surprising. Even as a huge Legion fan, I have to say that both of these Legion books failed as being books that could hook a new reader... or even books that would properly introduce the characters to new readers.
The last time DC announced a cancellation, it replaced every cancelled book with a new title. I am wondering if DC will cancel all those 13 books selling under 20k, taking them from having a "new 46" to a "new 33". And if they do, will they be able to come up THIRTEEN new concepts for new comics... and if so, will they have decent creative teams?
And if they cancel the other two books (#14 and 15), that would put DC at a "new 31", making the relaunched books slightly less than 60% successful. And if DC does go down to "the new 31", which books will be next? I imagine a time when half of "the new 52" are gone, so to go down to the "new 26", DC would have to cancel only five more books. Looking at current sales, I would then predict the following to be cancelled:
1. All-Star Western
2. Stormwatch (the last one of Jim Lee's Wildstorm properties to stick around)
3. Green Arrow
4. Birds of Prey
5. Suicide Squad.
And oddly enough, if all those were cancelled, the only remaining books would feature (a) a group called something like "Justice League", (b) a member of the Justice League of America, (c) a character derivative of a JLoA member (Superboy, Supergirl, Batgirl, Nightwing, Red Lanterns, etc), (d) Swamp Thing or Animal Man, or (e) the Teen Titans or a derivative group (Red Hood & the Outlaws).
The introduction for Harley Quinn on the Suicide Squad seemed almost cool enough for me to get into that book. But I know nothing about the SS as it is... so...
But yeah, I don't read any of the books in the lowest sales margin, simply don't have the dough.
That's a shame, as I really like Voodoo and I-Vampire. However, the main guy is apparently going to be in Justice League Dark, so I am not too upset. I just hope Voodoo gets put somewhere in the new DC universe if her title gets cancelled as I really like her and her story so far.
The others don't really bother me. DC presents went downhill after Deadman's story ended so unless there is another amazing tale, I doubt that title will be around for too long. Everything else listed just does not cut it when compared to the other titles currently available. Without mentioning Swampthing or Animal Man, Aquaman, and Batwoman are in another league when compared to Hawkman.
It's the nature of the business. "New 52" premise can't last forever. I'll continue to enjoy reading the books I read, and if overall sales mean the book gets canned, they'll usually replace the book with something else that may or may not interest me. The only canned book I'm reading is OMAC, but the second wave actually has me excited for 5 of the 6 new titles (no Dial H for me).
Quote : Originally Posted by Early Cuyler in Squidbillies, "Fatal Distraction"
Hell, I don't want to hear the labor, I just want to see the damn baby
Yeah, why Captain Atom escaped cancellation is anyone's guess. I think they wanted to keep JT Krul in the fold for whatever reason and just bit the bullet on that one until they can get him on something higher-profile. The book isn't bad, but it just hasn't grabbed my attention like I hoped it would.
Of the books "on the bubble," I, Vampire, Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE, Resurrection Man and Batwing are easily the best books that no one's reading. With Jeff Lemire passing off Frankenstein to a friend so he can take over Justice League Dark, I wouldn't be surprised if the book ends up on the chopping block by the fall. I, Vampire is a critical darling right now, and would probably be doing better in sales if it was a Vertigo title. Resurrection Man isn't as good as the original series, but it's close enough, and should stick around for a while. Most surprising is Batwing, which by all rights shouldn't be any good at all, and yet is rather consistently amazing from month to month.
I've got one more issue left with Grifter and Savage Hawkman before Rob Liefeld takes over and I drop them like a grenade (good thing I'm not reading Deathstroke, either). And trust me, Savage Hawkman has already been a struggle. I just wanted to see if it would go anywhere. It's not, and even the (re)introduction of Gentleman Ghost was...uninspiring.
The LSH books are in an unfortunate place right now, too. I'll stick with them for a while longer, especially since Tom DeFalco's taking over Legion Lost and his first issue was somewhat of an improvement over Fabian Nicieza's opening arc.
Overall, the biggest disappointments of the remaining "New 52" books to me have been Green Arrow, Firestorm and Blue Beetle. I just dropped the former, after Ann Nocenti's first issue, and the others books didn't make it past issue two for me.
Meanwhile, the biggest surprise for me has been Green Lantern Corps. Featuring the two Lanterns that I care the least about, it's easily the best-written and most engaging of the Green Lantern titles. Not counting Red Lanterns, which even though it's not really my cup of tea, the two issues I read were very well-done. I just dropped New Guardians -- my interest in Kyle Rayner and Saint Walker just couldn't carry me any further -- and at this point, I'm only sticking with Green Lantern itself until the Indigo Tribe story is done. Once that's out of the way, I'm off the title until DC lets Johns leave the book like he so obviously wants.
Honestly, DC's limited series the past few months have been much better than many of the ongoings. The Shade is really good, though Robinson's still not quite back in his Starman-era form; The Ray was probably the best introduction to a new character I've seen in years (why couldn't Firestorm be that good?); and The Huntress was just plain excellent. Penguin: Pain and Prejudice is sitting in my reading pile, and I'm waiting for the final issues of Legion: Secret Origin and THUNDER Agents before I dive into those.
Once the Court of Owls crossover ends, I'll reassess what Bat titles I'm getting, but I'll probably end up dropping Detective until someone other than Tony Daniel is writing the book, and Birds of Prey will probably go, too. Snyder's Batman isn't going anywhere, and most likely, neither is Batman & Robin.
Of the new titles coming, I'm eagerly awaiting Earth Two and Worlds' Finest, reinvention or no. They're giving me Jay Garrick. That's enough.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
"I sit corrected. You and Owlman BOTH win the thread."
When it comes to Superman and Batman, Grant Morrison is nothing but a 50's cover band in a 70's psychedelic funk style.
Yeah, why Captain Atom escaped cancellation is anyone's guess. I think they wanted to keep JT Krul in the fold for whatever reason and just bit the bullet on that one until they can get him on something higher-profile. The book isn't bad, but it just hasn't grabbed my attention like I hoped it would.
Of the books "on the bubble," I, Vampire, Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE, Resurrection Man and Batwing are easily the best books that no one's reading. With Jeff Lemire passing off Frankenstein to a friend so he can take over Justice League Dark, I wouldn't be surprised if the book ends up on the chopping block by the fall. I, Vampire is a critical darling right now, and would probably be doing better in sales if it was a Vertigo title. Resurrection Man isn't as good as the original series, but it's close enough, and should stick around for a while. Most surprising is Batwing, which by all rights shouldn't be any good at all, and yet is rather consistently amazing from month to month.
I agree whole heartedly with these statements. Batwing is by far the best new character of the '52 and the only book I enjoy more than Frankenstein is Aquaman.
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I've got one more issue left with Grifter and Savage Hawkman before Rob Liefeld takes over and I drop them like a grenade (good thing I'm not reading Deathstroke, either). And trust me, Savage Hawkman has already been a struggle. I just wanted to see if it would go anywhere. It's not, and even the (re)introduction of Gentleman Ghost was...uninspiring.
Deathstroke is bad--not Red Hood bad, but still--Hawkman makes me miss my Carter. I'd like to give it a chance to get better, but I'm doubting it will.
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The LSH books are in an unfortunate place right now, too. I'll stick with them for a while longer, especially since Tom DeFalco's taking over Legion Lost and his first issue was somewhat of an improvement over Fabian Nicieza's opening arc.
I've enjoyed the Legion books but agree with the earlier poster about how they are poor introductions for new readers.
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Overall, the biggest disappointments of the remaining "New 52" books to me have been Green Arrow, Firestorm and Blue Beetle. I just dropped the former, after Ann Nocenti's first issue, and the others books didn't make it past issue two for me.
I agree about Green Arrow being weak and disappointing, but I enjoyed Jaime's reboot, and liked Firestorm for the first time.
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Meanwhile, the biggest surprise for me has been Green Lantern Corps. Featuring the two Lanterns that I care the least about, it's easily the best-written and most engaging of the Green Lantern titles. Not counting Red Lanterns, which even though it's not really my cup of tea, the two issues I read were very well-done. I just dropped New Guardians -- my interest in Kyle Rayner and Saint Walker just couldn't carry me any further -- and at this point, I'm only sticking with Green Lantern itself until the Indigo Tribe story is done. Once that's out of the way, I'm off the title until DC lets Johns leave the book like he so obviously wants.
I agree that GLC is the best of the GL titles besides Red Lantern which is shockingly good (one of my biggest surprises). I'm going to stick with New Guardians because I like Kyle and think he's been pissed on since Hal got back.
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I agree about Green Arrow being weak and disappointing, but I enjoyed Jaime's reboot, and liked Firestorm for the first time.
As someone who really likes Green Arrow, the new Green Arrow is one of the worst comic books I've ever read. My policy is usually to give something four issues/episodes/tracks/installations of whatever format before I decide if I like it or not, but I could barely get through two of that. Veeeery disappointing.
Quote : Originally Posted by Haven13
If I was the kinda guy who put things like this in his sig, I'd put these things in my sig.
As someone who really likes Green Arrow, the new Green Arrow is one of the worst comic books I've ever read. My policy is usually to give something four issues/episodes/tracks/installations of whatever format before I decide if I like it or not, but I could barely get through two of that. Veeeery disappointing.
I liked the younger Ollie, but other than being younger (and the new costume) I agree that there isn't much going for that book.
I've read every issue and it has yet to improve.
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HCFL:
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I've tried reading through Green Arrow. Been a little bit unsuccessful. While I enjoy seeing him a little younger, it's almost as if DC was trying to capture what made Smallville's Green Arrow. However, lightning can't strike twice.
I enjoyed the Green Arrow/Black Canary series. That was a great small run. And it included the other members of the Arrow family (including Mia, who is my favorite of the group)
I've tried reading through Green Arrow. Been a little bit unsuccessful. While I enjoy seeing him a little younger, it's almost as if DC was trying to capture what made Smallville's Green Arrow. However, lightning can't strike twice.
That's exactly what they were trying to do. The costume, the bored corporate/playboy persona. All the trappings of Smallville's Ollie are there, but the personality, the plots and the fun just aren't.
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I enjoyed the Green Arrow/Black Canary series. That was a great small run. And it included the other members of the Arrow family (including Mia, who is my favorite of the group)
I enjoyed the first 14 issues of the series immensely. That was Judd Winick's run, and I'm normally not a huge fan of his stuff. But when Winick left the book, it went straight to hell.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
"I sit corrected. You and Owlman BOTH win the thread."
When it comes to Superman and Batman, Grant Morrison is nothing but a 50's cover band in a 70's psychedelic funk style.
That's exactly what they were trying to do. The costume, the bored corporate/playboy persona. All the trappings of Smallville's Ollie are there, but the personality, the plots and the fun just aren't.
I enjoyed the first 14 issues of the series immensely. That was Judd Winick's run, and I'm normally not a huge fan of his stuff. But when Winick left the book, it went straight to hell.
But what would've worked? I honestly don't think they could've done anything with Ollie.
What happens when you strip Ollie of Mia, Roy, and Dinah? He starts to become a little vanilla.
What I think may have worked a little bit better is if they would've fully dived into the idea of presenting the personality of Smallville Ollie. Re-introduce his supporting cast. Show his first run-in with Mia and Roy. (Instead Roy got cast aside to Red Hood and the Outlaws, but could've showed his origin with Ollie before they went their separate ways somehow)
Here's a list of these books along with their sales for February:
1. Captain Atom (which somehow missed being part of the Cancelled Six) (13,698)
2. Voodoo (14,780)
3. Blue Beetle (15,331)
4. I, Vampire (16,338)
5. Grifter (16,251)
6. Resurrection Man (16,712)
7. Legion Lost (17,502)
8. Fury of Firestorm (17,246)
9. DCU Presents (18,169)
10. Frankenstein, Agent of SHADE (18,417)
11. Deathstroke (19,175)
12. Batwing (19,479)
13. Savage Hawkman (19,184)
And ones that are getting close to the 20k mark are:
14. Legion of Super-Heroes (21,085)
15. Demon Knights (21,128)
.
Here's an update with the March sales numbers:
1. Captain Atom (12,364). How is this not cancelled yet?
2. Voodoo (13,587)
3. Blue Beetle (14,202)
4. I, Vampire (16,596). It actually improved sales, but negligibly.
5. Grifter (14,903)
6. Resurrection Man (15,548)
7. Legion Lost (16,393)
8. Fury of Firestorm (16,007)
9. DCU Presents (16,047)
10. Frankenstein, Agent of SHADE (17,002)
11. Deathstroke (17,770)
12. Batwing (18,952)
13. Savage Hawkman (17,490)
14. Legion of Super-Heroes (19,705)
15. Demon Knights (19,800)
So, these 15 books are under 20k sales. Combined with the 6 cancelled books (with Blackhawks' sales down to a sad 9601), that makes 21 books under DC's cancellation criterion. So, maybe the New 52/46 will soon become the New 31. OTOH, DC has been implying that some books may not be cancelled for low sales, while the ones that do may see their characters elsewhere (such as with having Batwing joining the JLI).
Oddly, one book improved by nearly 2000 issues in March; that book was Suicide Squad. And one book that didn't fall as much as books at its level was Teen Titans.
But the group of books currently just above the cancellation line are:
All Star Western (22, 814)
Stormwatch (24,384)
Green Arrow (26,104). I'm surprised it's doing this well, frankly.
Birds of Prey (26,276)
Suicide Squad (29,617). If it keeps improving, it may be safe.
Superboy (29,745).
I would've only listed 5 (not 6) books to show the bottom half of the New 52, but Suicide Squad and Superboy are too close to really choose one over the other. And they're not yet close enough to really worry about them being cancelled.
Oh, and for additional info, here's how the top half of the DC New 52 looks:
1. Justice League (131,697). I'll never understand why Jim Lee's Justice League is popular, but its popularity is undeniable. Yet, this JL#7 is still selling less than the *previous* Justice League #7.
2. Batman (127,402)
3. Action (91,822)
4. Green Lantern (90,232)
5. Detective (89,891)
6. Batman: The Dark Knight (75,297)
7. The Flash (64,475)
8. Superman (66,588)
9.Aquaman (62,345)
10. Batman and Robin (61,209)
11. Teen Titans (51, 402)
12. Wonder Woman (51,314)
13. Green Lantern: New Guardians (48,442)
14. Batwoman (46,874)
15. Batgirl (45,685)
16. Nightwing (45,440)
17. Green Lantern Corps (43,823)
18. Swamp Thing (40,268)
19. Red Lanterns (37,465)
20. Catwoman (35, 647)
21. Red Hood & the Outlaws (34,767)
22. Supergirl (33,337)
23. Animal Man (33,174)
24. Justice League Dark (32,480)
25. JLI (31,747)
26. Superboy (as previously mentioned, with 29,745)
Oh, and for additional info, here's how the top half of the DC New 52 looks:
1. Justice League (131,697). I'll never understand why Jim Lee's Justice League is popular, but its popularity is undeniable. Yet, this JL#7 is still selling less than the *previous* Justice League #7.
2. Batman (127,402)
3. Action (91,822)
4. Green Lantern (90,232)
5. Detective (89,891)
6. Batman: The Dark Knight (75,297)
7. The Flash (64,475)
8. Superman (66,588)
9.Aquaman (62,345)
10. Batman and Robin (61,209)
11. Teen Titans (51, 402)
12. Wonder Woman (51,314)
13. Green Lantern: New Guardians (48,442)
14. Batwoman (46,874)
15. Batgirl (45,685)
16. Nightwing (45,440)
17. Green Lantern Corps (43,823)
18. Swamp Thing (40,268)
19. Red Lanterns (37,465)
20. Catwoman (35, 647)
21. Red Hood & the Outlaws (34,767)
22. Supergirl (33,337)
23. Animal Man (33,174)
24. Justice League Dark (32,480)
25. JLI (31,747)
26. Superboy (as previously mentioned, with 29,745)
Supposedly the first story was absolutely terrible, but that's a writing issue. I bought issue 7 for the Captain Marvel backup as I assume many others did. JL will get boosted sales solely because of exploited Captain Marvel fans until we've had enough, which will be VERY soon if the story doesn't take a HUGE turn in the next issue.
Suicide Squad is on the rise because it's an amazing book, as is Demon Knights (though that one has slightly fallen). Low sales =/= bad title all the time., though most of those bottom 15 do support that cause.
Coincidentally, I am dropping Frankenstein once Lemire leaves the book and Blue Beetle. I'll stick with Legion Lost because I'm a fanatic, but it is losing steam. Demon Knights & Legion of Super-Heroes are good books, though Legion may need an injection of a new endearing saga.
I, Vampire improved sales last month due to the Justice League Dark crossover. The crossovers in May will be absurd, since Teen Titans, Superboy, & Legion Lost crossover for "The Culling", and JLI crosses over with Fury of Firestorm. Also the Court of Owls in the Batman books, even reflecting in All-Star Western. Animal Man & Swamp Thing have a synergy going on with their stories, so they help each others sales.
OMAC is becoming a member of JLI starting in May as well, much like Batwing.
They're finding ways to improve the sales. They're also finding ways to kill certain books - ie Rob Liefeld.
Quote : Originally Posted by Early Cuyler in Squidbillies, "Fatal Distraction"
Hell, I don't want to hear the labor, I just want to see the damn baby