R105 Rebreather:


The "until the end of turn" is making the timing on this unclear to me.

Does that mean it's possible to have a character take a power action to use the rebreather, then sometime later in the turn take a free action to activate the move and attack ability? Similar to perplex where at any point during your turn you take a free action to modify a combat value.

I.E.

1) (A) takes a power action to use the rebreather and until then end of the turn possesses and can use the move and attack ability.

2) (B) TKs (A) out 8 squares and off of water terrain

3) (A) still has the and move and attack (until the end of turn) and decides to use the free action now to go out and smash face.

This seems legal to me with the current wording. What do you guys think?

You go it all correct. Since the ability doesn't say "immediately", you can do any amount of actions between activating the Rebreather and using the powers it grants.

Free actions which are part of other actions, ie the power action for rebreather, are done before actions resolve. The "until end of turn" duration is not how long you are allowed to take the free action but rather the duration of how long then transporter doplphin symbol lasts. At least I'm pretty sure that's how it is based on other similar wordings such as smoke pellets "This character may use smoke cloud as a free action until end of turn" which happens immediately.

And I am aware of the rule you're referring:

PG7 of the 2012 Rulebook under Giving Actions to Characters:

It seems to me that the text of the rebreather specifically circumvents this with usage of "until the end of turn" and "and".

That's what I thought as well for the smoke pellets at first but was told otherwise. I could totally be wrong about this but based on how those powers are worded I'm assuming it's the same.

Hmmm. I can see it going either way. The wording is not very clear.

The powers are actually worded differently with Rebreather seeming more liberal in when you need to execute the free action.

I wish then that they'd use the word "immediately" in the text then. It would certainly be much easier to understand than needing to know a sub-rule.

"Until your next turn" compared to "Until the end of your turn"

Different wording for the same intention perhaps? Either way I can see a case for both sides of this debate.

Would you happen to have a link to the thread where the smoke pellet discussion was?

I have players building their NML6 teams around this strategy and it would pull the rug out from under their feet if it was ruled differently.

The slightly different duration is due to the relevance of the abilities for game play. Smoke Cloud lasting until the start of your next turn is important because you probably want the smoke to still be there on your opponents turn. But there are very few game effects that will specifically check for the while on your opponents turn so its duration doesn't have to be as long.

Here is one thread (that I started making the same argument as you) that holds some insight, but I couldn't find one readily with an orange for you.

http://w.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402860

Thank you. I still find no clarity in this exact circumstance as the Warblade/Action Token/Barrier situation is different, but I see where you're coming from.

For the time being, I assume this would be up to the judge's discretion until an orange makes a ruling?

Any orange care to weigh in? I'd appreciate it.

Page 7 of the rulebook states:

After a player has declared their turn over but before the next player begins their turn, first resolve and end all effects that last “this turn” or “until the end of the turn,” then resolve all effects that occur “at the end of your turn.”



I would think the rebreather takes a power action to activate,and then you now possess the dolphin transporter symbol until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn the effect of having the dolphin transporter symbol resolves.


I would think that the power action to gain the dolphin transporter symbol can happen at some point during your turn,and then later in your turn you can activate free action move and attack granted by the dolphin transporter symbol you now possess until the end of the turn.

Is this wrong?

We aren't quite sure at the moment, but the argument I'm making is that yes you get the dolphin transporter until end of turn but the free action to use move and attack must be taken immediately before the power action resolves.