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I know that it has been ruled characters with improved movement/ leap climb, ignore water terrain for movement purposes, I do not agree with this for a few reasons.
In the P.A.C / Rule book
WATER TERRAIN
Water terrain represents features like streams, ponds, and other liquids. Water terrain behaves like other terrain for movement and line of fire purposes, though it is still a specific kind of terrain when considered for anything other than movement or line of fire purposes.
HINDERING TERRAIN
Hindering terrain represents an area containing trees, furniture, debris, objects, and other similar items that might obstruct both a character’s line of fire and movement. Close combat attacks are not prevented by hindering terrain. Any line of fire or path of movement that crosses hindering terrain (including the square occupied by the target) is labeled a “hindered” line of fire or path of movement. A hindered line of fire is treated as a clear line of fire for the purposes of powers and abilities that require a “clear” line of fire, with the additional effects below. Movement: Hindering terrain impedes movement. A character that crosses from terrain that is not hindering for movement into a square that is hindering for movement must stop moving. Any character that begins its movement in hindering terrain halves its speed value before moving.
• Line of Fire: Hindering terrain impedes line of fire. If a line of fire between two characters is hindered, modify the target’s defense value by +1 for the attack, unless the only square of hindering terrain crossed is occupied by the attacker.
In the pack Aquatic movement . ignores water Terrain
not very laid out but I do feel the distinction of water terrain being set apart as different to green hindering, yes I understand they both hinder on movement, but I completely feel they are meant to be separate entities just from how the P.A.C and the Rule book is laid out. As water terrain is given it’s own heading and description,
also from the FOTR set which many say is a printing error but seeing it printed makes sense to me personally we have the fotrB102 Black Courser[, who has RIDE OF SLEEPLESS MALICE: Improved Movement: Ignores Hindering Terrain, Ignores Water Terrain
now back to Aquatic movement, if we go by the current ruling of Green hindering on movement ignores blue for movement hindering, then why cant someone who has ignores water terrain run through green hindering as they ignore hindering on movement purposes? I once asked the question if green hindering ignores water for movement purposes why cant a character with aquatic symbol ignore green for movement purposes only? It only makes sense as they both ignore hindering for movement.
let me know your thoughts.
, as I do feel water and green hindering terrain should be separate entities I know others who fall on this though to.
not very laid out but I do feel the distinction of water terrain being set apart as different to green hindering, yes I understand they both hinder on movement, but I completely feel they are meant to be separate entities just from how the P.A.C and the Rule book is laid out.
Well, they are not. Not much more I can say about it. If they were meant to be separate, there has been numerous occassions where they could have been made separate, and that has not happened.
Quote : Originally Posted by dd_203
now back to Aquatic movement, if we go by the current ruling of Green hindering on movement ignores blue for movement hindering, then why cant someone who has ignores water terrain run through green hindering as they ignore hindering on movement purposes? I once asked the question if green hindering ignores water for movement purposes why cant a character with aquatic symbol ignore green for movement purposes only? It only makes sense as they both ignore hindering for movement.
First of all: It's not a "ruling" - it's the rule. It's not an interpretation, it is a case of verified intent. See above.
Because the two are not equivalent - water is a subset of hindering terrain.
If I can eat as much candy as I want, and you can eat as much chocolate as you want, I can eat just as much as you can since chocolate is a form of candy. That does not mean you can eat any candy you want though since you are more limited in the kind of sweets you can eat. Same thing with hindering and water.
This is 37, I believe. Had to double check the post dates.
My vote is still for a little reminder on the PAC that any character that ignores hindering also ignores water.
I am fully aware that this isn't/shouldn't be needed. I don't care. I would still vote to put in on there. Unfortunately, we don't vote on this.
Since they are in fact separate and distinct types of terrain with some properties in common I would have made them actually different (ignoring Water would require "IM:ignores blue square"). I don't buy the argument that it would create as much confusion as it relieves: eventually that confusion will go away and this, obviously, won't. If this had been done when they were separated into different terrain types instead of Water being a type of Hindering the issue would be another one of those "remember when" things by now. But as you say, we don't get to decide. And there is no question that the design intent is that ignoring Hindering includes ignoring Water.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
The way in the rules and PAC is set up it does have and seems to have a defining differences on what is hindering trees bushes and what is water it is water. But because it states it is hindering on movement it is used for green hindering terrain can ignore water. But it also states for water ignored hindering for movement but they can't tread through some bushes? Seems inconsistent and I run through players who have a division on this as water is defined as separate regardless of the hindering for movement.
The way in the rules and PAC is set up it does have and seems to have a defining differences on what is hindering trees bushes and what is water it is water. But because it states it is hindering on movement it is used for green hindering terrain can ignore water. But it also states for water ignored hindering for movement but they can't tread through some bushes? Seems inconsistent and I run through players who have a division on this as water is defined as separate regardless of the hindering for movement.
Water is defined as a separate thing from Hindering (although it hasn't always been), but has the attributes that it is Hindering for movement and Clear for LOF. Since IM:green square says to ignore hindering terrain for movement and Water is hindering terrain for movement, it's actually clear from the rules that IM:green square will also ignore Water. The reverse is not true: IM:blue square says to ignore Water for movement and so would have no benefit in Hindering. I know this is a source of confusion, it has been pretty much as long as the game has been around. But the answer you're getting here has been confirmed with Game Design more than once.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.”
The way in the rules and PAC is set up it does have and seems to have a defining differences on what is hindering trees bushes and what is water it is water. But because it states it is hindering on movement it is used for green hindering terrain can ignore water. But it also states for water ignored hindering for movement but they can't tread through some bushes? Seems inconsistent and I run through players who have a division on this as water is defined as separate regardless of the hindering for movement.
First, I can see from your avatar that you have a vested interest in making Aquaman better than Batman...
Second, think of it like Square and Rectangle. All Squares are Rectangles (2 matching sides x 2 matching sides), but not all Rectangles are Squares (4 matching sides).
All Water terrain is Hindering, but not all Hindering terrain is Water.