This came up in a game yesterday, and I want to confirm the ruling I thought I read on here is correct.

Situation:

Doomsday is standing next to Parasite. Doomsday is the higher point cost figure and gains the superpower Outwit. Doomsday Outwit's Thing's Invulnerability.

Doomsday makes a CCE attack against Thing.


I said that this wasn't possible because Doomsday has GAINED the SUPERPOWER Outwit and CCE won't work with any superpower.

The judge said that this was legal because this is a team ability so it works with CCE AND Outwit and CCE aren't active at the same time anyways (which doesn't really make sense to me-as one would maintain Outwit to keep another power turned off).

Can anybody shed some light on this?

You're right - the judge was wrong.

das Darke

Actually, I don't think so.
The Superman Enemey Team ability does grant the power of outwit - so once the outwit is created it is no longer given the benefit of team abilities (it now can be outwitted).
However, the timing is that you can outwit at any time in a turn (even before a poison attack happens). So in this case, Doomsday can outwit Thing's Invulnerability, then start his attack without using any other power other than CCE. And if he misses the attack, he's allowed to re-attempt it with Probability Control, since neither power affects Doomsday during the attack.

Interesting. Anybody have any other thoughts?

If you use outwit it is "on" else the outwitted power returns, so no, Doonsday cannot outwit and then CCE attack someone.

That topic is an old one - the figure with CCE or RCE cannot use CCE/RCE with any other power (except prob control) in one round. Superman Enemy grants the Outwit power so it's like normal outwit.

das Darke

That's what I figured. And I was certain I'd read this topic on here before but wanted to confirm that nobody heard anything different.

So next problem...if this IS how the ruling is supposed to work, what do I do to tell a judge that doesn't fully know the rules but won't listen unless it's posted on the Wizkids Judge's Forum?

As far as I know, this ruling is being discussed on the judge's forum or at least it's on DrGandalf's list of rulings that need clarification. Unfortunately, you may have to wait until then to be able to point to anything solid to show the judge.

So what's the generally accepted ruling right now? Before Gandalf makes his decision?

Right now, you can use Outwit on a second figure that is NOT the target of the RCE/CCE attack, or use Outwit after the Rce/CCE attack. You may not use Outwit on a character and then make a RCE/CCE attack on the same character with the character that used Outwit.


Is that clear as mud for ya......?

Depends on the judge really. I've seen many judges with different interpretations of the ruling and until there's a more definitive answer given there's no "generally accepted ruling".

I think most people play that Doomsday would not be able to outwit someone and then use CCE on that same person but this just seems to be consensus amongst many, it's not accepted by all.

Right. That makes sense. Doomsday could Outwit Human Torche's ESD before or after he attacked Thing w/ CCE. But he shouldn't be able to Outwit the same fig he is going to attack with CCE.

How many rules does Gandalf have in the judges forum that need work?

That was the ruling from Chapeau BTW (the previous RA), apparently, DrG is looking at it, and it may change. However, it may not change too.....

Is there anywhere I can get a copy of Chapeau's rulings? At least I can give this judge the most current information (Although the judge should be doing this himself...).

If anywhere, it would be in the DC FAQs. (since this only applies to characters with the Supes Enemy TA) I'm not too familiar with the DC FAQs (except where it applies to Marvel) because I pretty much play Marvel only....

I was always under the assumption that u cant use powers that would affect the damage on CCE or RCE like Super Strength or Perplex or something like that. I don't see any reason why u can't use CCE with Outwit. If it's illegal for Doomsday to use Outwit followed by CCE then have someone else use Outwit and have Doomsday knock them back to last month.