I'LL FORGE YOUR WEAPON, YOU $#@*&%: Friendly characters can use free actions instead of power actions to make a relic roll and modify their roll by +1 if not already modified by this effect.

Can a character with a friendly Splitlip on the team attempt a relic roll twice in one turn? Once as the standard power action, and once as a free action?

No. You can't activate the same game effect twice in one turn, no matter if it's a free action or power action.

This is incorrect. The rules prevent the same free action twice, but in past threads deputies have said you can use both a free action and a non-free action for the same game effect.

I agree with Nordles. GF Wolverine is an example with his Regeneration. Granted he was a slightly special case...

I rescind my previous post. I think you can roll as a free action and as a power action. You're incorrect about the second part though:

Game effects which grant the use or possession of another game effect have no effect if the recipient can already use the new effect.

If someone has smoke cloud showing, and they have Black Light assigned, they will be unable to use smoke cloud as a power action, then again as a free action. I got mixed up with that ruling when thinking about the relic rolls.

And as far as GF Wolverine, the wording was changed in the PG to make it where he could do both.

The second part is concerning special powers that say "...may use it normally, or as a free action...". Deputies have stated that unless it says "or instead", you may use it normally, AND as a free action.

I don't see why it would be any different than doing the same thing with Splitlip now.
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpo...0&postcount=32

@vlad3theimpaler, I believe that thread was discussing attempts at different relics, one free and one power. (being tked between relics) This thread is for the same relic twice in one turn.

I'LL FORGE YOUR WEAPON, YOU $#@*&%: Friendly characters can use free actions instead of power actions to make a relic roll and modify their roll by +1 if not already modified by this effect.

I would say no, because this is one of the few powers/abilities that is written grammatically proper. They use the word instead as an adverb to describe a verb. The verb being the free action or the power action.

Now adverbs describe; verbs, adjectives, and adverbs in terms of such qualities as time, frequency, and manner. The word instead is defined as a substitute or replacement; in the place or stead of someone or something. In the case of this power it is used to describe the manner in which the verb; free action or power action can be used, which is as a substitute.

It was, but it doesn't change anything.

It doesn't matter if you attempt a relic roll as a free action, get TKed over to another relic and try to pick it up with a power action (or use a power action then get caried over by a flyer and use the free action), or if you are now, by the new rule, sitting on the same relic and trying it twice.

It is perfectly legal for a character to make multiple relic pick-up attempts in a single turn, but only one can be a free action.

This.

Splitlip's trait replaces the norm with regards to friendly characters picking up a relic. Ordinarily picking up a relic would require a power action which can only be done once per turn for that specific character; Splitlip's trait changes relic pickups to a free action.

From the rule book:

"A character may not activate the same game effect twice in one turn with free actions, unless the game effect indicates otherwise." - 2013 HeroClix Rule Book, pg. 9

i.e. 1 attempt to pick up a relic for free during that turn for that character attempting the pick up.

Edit: Now that I've re-read it, it seems you CAN attempt a relic pick as a free action, and if you fail assign a power action to try again.

I had an old argument about this meaning all relic rolls are the same game effect, so you could never make two relic rolls (one each for two different relics) in the same game, meaning the Book could never actually let you get two hammers. But that isn't a good argument anymore.
I hate when rules team fixes the rules to get rid of my questions!

How did you come to this conclusion? The adverb being used to describe the verb (action) is the word "instead". Instead in simple terms means; to replace with an alternative or a substitute.

What this means is that you can "instead" of using a power action to pick up relics with your characters, you can now "instead" do it as free action. No where is it implied in that wording or through the English language that the characters on your force can use both the free action and the power action. It's one or the other! That's what the word instead means...

"I'LL FORGE YOUR WEAPON, YOU $#@*&%: Friendly characters can use free actions instead of power actions to make a relic roll and modify their roll by +1 if not already modified by this effect."

It does not say "Friendly characters MUST use free actions..." or "relic rolls by friendly characters are now free actions..." etc. There's an element of choice there.

And:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpo...0&postcount=32

That settles it for me.

But again the power specifically states as you copied and pasted it; Friendly characters can use free actions instead of power actions to make a relic roll.

What can means in that statement is that you have a choice to instead use the free action vs. the power action. Like you said; "It does not say, Friendly characters MUST use free actions...", but it does not say you can use both either

If that power was intended to work the way you or other people think it should work then the word instead should have been replaced with and, as well or, in addition too.

This is simple grammar people! Chrisdosmil is cool and all, but I'm sorry I don't buy his ruling on this. This is a game that is based on the wordings of powers/abilities. These powers/abilities are written in the English language; therefore, grammar must be taken into account when analyzing these powers/abilities.

This power is worded clear as day how it is supposed to work per the English language. If Chisdosmil seriously ruled this way when interpreting this power, then he needs to brush up on his grammatical skills. This is one of the few powers written correctly with common sense use of adverbs and verbs that is learned in a 7th grade grammar class. Again I don't think that link was in the context of Splitlips power though...

But you know folks, as ignorant as Wizkids and NECCA has been with their inept ability to construct a coherent 7th grade sentence for a power to say what they intended it mean; I can totally understand them screwing this one up too...

Are you so impressed with the oranges authority that you give respect and credence to all that claim it? Do you read everything you’re supposed to read? Do you think every thing you’re supposed to think? Buy what you’re told to want? Let's think on our own folks and use common sense facts to formulate our own conclusions.