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FORCE BLAST
Give this character a power action and roll a d6; a single adjacent
opposing character is knocked back from this character a number of squares equal to
the result. When this character hits with an attack, you may choose that it generates
knock back if it doesn’t already.
For the description that's highlighted, when you attack (either closed or ranged) can it already be considered that you're "using Force Blast" as well, as what Cosmic Spidey's power says:
ENIGMA FORCE BLAST: Cosmic Spider-Man can use Force Blast. If he does so, he can then use Ranged Combat Expert as a free action targeting the same character.
So will you be able to lets' say, do a close combat attack then use RCE as a free action?
FORCE BLAST
Give this character a power action and roll a d6; a single adjacent
opposing character is knocked back from this character a number of squares equal to
the result. When this character hits with an attack, you may choose that it generates
knock back if it doesn’t already.
For the description that's highlighted, when you attack (either closed or ranged) can it already be considered that you're "using Force Blast" as well, as what Cosmic Spidey's power says:
ENIGMA FORCE BLAST: Cosmic Spider-Man can use Force Blast. If he does so, he can then use Ranged Combat Expert as a free action targeting the same character.
So will you be able to lets' say, do a close combat attack then use RCE as a free action?
No.
From the Player's Guide:
"When game effects are triggered from using a power or ability
(typically using a phrasing like “When he does…”), it refers to when
you are given an action to activate it if there is an action option for
the power (ie, Charge or Force Blast) or when you choose to utilize
an effect when the effect works in conjunction with an action (ie,
Blades/Claws/Fangs or Carry)."
Quote : Originally Posted by Magnito
In other words, it's all Vlad's fault.
Quote : Originally Posted by Masenko
Though I'm pretty sure if we ever meet rl, you get a free junk shot on me.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
Vlad is neither good nor evil. He is simply Legal.
No.
From the Player's Guide:
"When game effects are triggered from using a power or ability
(typically using a phrasing like “When he does…”), it refers to when
you are given an action to activate it if there is an action option for
the power (ie, Charge or Force Blast) or when you choose to utilize
an effect when the effect works in conjunction with an action (ie,
Blades/Claws/Fangs or Carry)."
Thanks vlad for the reply!
So the meaning behind: "if there is an action option for
the power" is you need to use the power action solely to activate Force Blast, instead of using close combat action to somehow also activate the power?
Whoever is worthy to wield the hammer. . .
My Mjolnir-Worthy List:
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Thanks vlad for the reply!
So the meaning behind: "if there is an action option for
the power" is you need to use the power action solely to activate Force Blast, instead of using close combat action to somehow also activate the power?
No.
From the Player's Guide:
"When game effects are triggered from using a power or ability
(typically using a phrasing like “When he does…”), it refers to when
you are given an action to activate it if there is an action option for
the power (ie, Charge or Force Blast) or when you choose to utilize
an effect when the effect works in conjunction with an action (ie,
Blades/Claws/Fangs or Carry)."
I understand your answer and its not like Cosmic Spidey needs any help, but let's look at the rest of that sentence after your highlight.
Quote
or when you choose to utilize
an effect when the effect works in conjunction with an action
Quote
When this character hits with an attack, you may choose that it generates knock back if it doesn’t already.
So, you gave an action to attack, then chose to use the effect from Force Blast.... seems like we're meeting the requirements.
As far as I can tell if you choose to do knockback with a regular attack through the force blast power then you are using force blast, and if you are using force blast then the option is open to use RCE as a free action afterwards.
If you roll doubles you aren't able to use force blast, but otherwise it seems like it works to me.
I do not know how you can say that you are not using force blast if you choose to knock a character back with an attack because you have force blast and that allows you the option.
"You may choose that it generates knockback..."
If you choose knockback, then you are using force blast.
Oh right, didn't notice that! So it can work!
And you're right about Cosmic Spidey, haha, but it's always good to maximize a figure's powers..haha..
As for an official ruling, I'd go by what vlad and vanisherpunisher say. VP was an orange(?) and it seems like vlad was too(?). I'm just pointing out that an argument can be made that you are choosing to use an effect generated by an action.
As far as I can tell if you choose to do knockback with a regular attack through the force blast power then you are using force blast, and if you are using force blast then the option is open to use RCE as a free action afterwards.
If you roll doubles you aren't able to use force blast, but otherwise it seems like it works to me.
I do not know how you can say that you are not using force blast if you choose to knock a character back with an attack because you have force blast and that allows you the option.
"You may choose that it generates knockback..."
If you choose knockback, then you are using force blast.
No, as Vlad quoted from the rulebook "doing things" with force blast is not the same as "using" it. "Use" is a game term that cannot be used in the same way you would in standard conversation. It is kind of like the "can" vs "may" thing in that regard.
Quote : Originally Posted by darkobiwan
As for an official ruling, I'd go by what vlad and vanisherpunisher say. VP was an orange(?) and it seems like vlad was too(?). I'm just pointing out that an argument can be made that you are choosing to use an effect generated by an action.
VP was never an orange. Vlad was an orange.
Sun Tzu Clan Leader
Quote : Originally Posted by Uberman
When a game hums along, full of action and excitement, it's a barnburner!
When it trudges forward glacially, bogged down by debates over ridiculous rules minutia, it's a Barnstable!
Thanks guys for the response but now I'm confused, haha, but I understand both sides here..
Some powers can have both an active and a passive effect. Charge, for example, lets your character move and attack when you give it a power action (active) but it also prevents the character from being knocked back (passive).
If an effect looks for a character to "use Charge", it is looking specifically for that assignment of a power action to use Charge, move and then attack. AKA the active part. Simply being "always on" to prevent knock back does not constitute using Charge.
With Force Blast, we have a similar set up. An active part (give a power action, roll a d6, knock back an adjacent character, yadda yadda yadda) and a passive part (any successful attack can generate knock back). If an effect, like CSM's Enigma Force, specifically looks for the use of Force Blast, it is only looking for the active part: CSM has to be assigned a power action to use Force Blast and roll that d6. The rest of Force Blast won't cut it.
I usually post only if I know the answer and very often with very simplistic answers, like the one earlier in this thread. So I might seem like I know more than I do.
I usually post only if I know the answer and very often with very simplistic answers, like the one earlier in this thread. So I might seem like I know more than I do.
No, as Vlad quoted from the rulebook "doing things" with force blast is not the same as "using" it. "Use" is a game term that cannot be used in the same way you would in standard conversation. It is kind of like the "can" vs "may" thing in that regard.
VP was never an orange. Vlad was an orange.
And that's fine, but they need to clean up the language.
Because when a character comes along that says that someone can not use this or that (a defensive power or team ability, for example), if the standard for use is to take an action to activate it, then that is a pretty useless ability. I do not activate those things, they just do what they do.
If electing to do knockback to a target because I have force blast is not "using" force blast, then how is dealing 1 damage to a character that hit me "using" mystics?
I didn't spend an action to activate mystics. I merely chose a passive effect.
I didn't take an action to use the PC TA, so I must not really be using it, and am instead just "doing things with it", right?