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The Streets of Gotham Marquee Batman (#100) has this damage power:
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I MADE THIS CITY A WEAPON: Batman can use Outwit. Give Batman a free action and choose an unheld object within 10 squares; deal all opposing characters occupying or adjacent to the same square as the object 1 damage, then remove the object from the game.
Does this apply to relics? I know relics are objects, and that they can't be destroyed, but this isn't destroy, it's "remove from the game." Any thoughts?
Ever since Nationals last year (at Origins) we've been told that effects that remove something from the game do not score that something. At Origins, this was made specifically with regards to the New Mutant's Self-Sacrifice trait:
Self-Sacrifice For My Friends: When a character that began the game attached to New Mutants would be KO’d, you may remove a character from this team base and remove it from the game. Turn the damaged character to its last non-KO click and heal it of 2 damage instead.
It has been consistently applied to other, similar effects since then. Off the top of my head, I know it was ruled this way for the removing a Mandarin Ring from the Power Plant:
Drain a Ring’s Power – Give a friendly character a free action and
remove any one ring from the Power Plant. If you do, that character
can either use Outwit or modify all of its combat values by +1, but
only for this turn.
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seeing as the rulebook is pretty clear on this.
2014 rulebook page 17, under 'Determining victory points':
Objects. Every object on an opponent’s
force that is removed from the game earns you a
number of victory points equal to its point value.
I would agree that it is clear. But I also would have said that all of those various removals described above scored points, too. I was very surprised by the removal rulings.
Given that, I now wouldn't be surprised if that bit on scoring was ruled to mean only objects removed in more traditional ways (e.g. after using it in an attack). Definitely a question for WES, if one is so inclined.
Well, both of those rulings are for removing a part from a bigger item, which is not clearly defined in the rules. Removing objects is clearly defined in the rules.
Well, both of those rulings are for removing a part from a bigger item, which is not clearly defined in the rules. Removing objects is clearly defined in the rules.
As you like. Personally, I think a more thorough examination of scoring VPs, for all situations, would prudent.
Well, both of those rulings are for removing a part from a bigger item, which is not clearly defined in the rules. Removing objects is clearly defined in the rules.
I'm inclined to agree with the above. Other elements are ambiguous, but objects are clearly defined.
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." "Prove you have the strength and courage to be free."
Well, both of those rulings are for removing a part from a bigger item, which is not clearly defined in the rules. Removing objects is clearly defined in the rules.
Not only parts of a larger whole, but off-board, as well. A relic/resource/immovable object on the map should be treated differently, similar to old ruling on Nanobots.
Quote : Originally Posted by MopedKid86
I'm inclined to agree with the above. Other elements are ambiguous, but objects are clearly defined.
Quote : Originally Posted by normalview
As you like. Personally, I think a more thorough examination of scoring VPs, for all situations, would prudent.
Thanks for all the replies. Cool that he can remove relics from the game, I think that's a very handy tool... especially for people who miss their relic roll, because they'll be occupying the square.
Not only parts of a larger whole, but off-board, as well. A relic/resource/immovable object on the map should be treated differently, similar to old ruling on Nanobots.
What old ruling is that? Nothing ever prevented Nanobots from being used on immobile objects, including relics.