http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...php?f=3&t=2833

This thread is in regards to Kyle Rayner's Duo attack

So maybe I am being a dink and reading this wrong.
In their first reply they state that
"You give Free Actions to make attacks, so in order to place you must give the Free Action and an attack must happen."

ok simple enough topic should be closed. But wait there is a follow up asking more or less a similar question. Their reply....

"If there are no legal targets after placing and attempting to make the first attack, that attack action resolves without an attack being made. You may then place Kyle Rayner in a different square and make the second attack as long as there is a legal square to place him and make an attack. Otherwise, the entire actions just resolves without any attacks being made and the character remains in whatever square they were in after legal placement."

Now for the most part these seem to be contradicting rulings in the same thread. What do you guys think?

Also when you look at the silver centurions torpedo in light of this I read it as you would get to make a shape change roll even though it has been ruled otherwise.

That's nonsensical. You must make a first attack in a duo attack before you make the second one. Besides, it's Kyle Rayner. Does he really need to be able to warp 12 squares to make a single attack?

The second reply is nonsense.

Worse, they changed the answer in less than four hours. That's gotta be a record. Awaiting stealth edit...

Good I'm not crazy

Not sure what is the problem with their second answer. Even if there ends up being no legal targets for the first attack he is allowed to be placed and attempt the second attack. Why is it nonsense?

Also as far as I am aware you do roll shape change for Silver Centurion's torpedo.

http://www.wizkidseventsystem.com/bb...e+change#p1156

Its nonsense because the first answer clearly states you MUST make an attack in order to make the free action. So how are you making it without the attack?

It was ruled at worlds that the shape change that was hit against the torpedo was illegal.

Just because it was ruled one way at Worlds, doesn't necessarily make it binding for the rest of us.

If it is overruled that you can't make a Shape Change roll at Worlds, it isn't binding in tournament play until a Rules Deputy says so online.

I agree I was just pointing out the differences in the ruling, that is all...........

Also I wasn't asking which one was legal I was simply pointing gout the contradiction.......

There is no contradiction in their rulings.

There is a missing piece to the puzzle though, which is the text for Shape Change:

SHAPE CHANGE
When this character is chosen as the target of an attack, you may roll a d6. On a result of (5) or (6), the attacker can’t target this character with an attack this turn and the attacker may choose another target character instead. The attacker then makes the attack unless there are no targets, in which case the action resolves without an attack.

I strongly dislike the idea that he can warp twice without making the first attack. The implications of the ruling extend beyond Shape Change. By allowing the second "warp" to occur even without an attack it allows him to warp twice and attack only once by choice.

If the first attack is not made, the second shouldn't be able to happen.

You're skipping something. He has to attempt to make an attack on the first jump, and that's exactly what the second post says.

Lol yeah I see that........ My point is that is not what the first one says.... So......

That is what the first one says. You must give an action and an attack (or an attempt to attack in the case of Shape Change) must happen.

He can't double jump without attempting an attack on the first jump. That is exactly what they said.

What they ruled is entirely in line with how Shape Change has been handled in the past, and that's what the question was about.

1. Kyle moves.
2. Kyle attempts to make an attack.
3. Shape change creates a state where he can't make an attack.
4. Play proceeds as normal, allowing him to move again and attempt to make another attack.

A successful shape change roll never results in an action 'unwinding' or being taken back. Play proceeds as normal, even if the action given normally requires an attack.

To clarify, as long as he attempts to make an attack, he's allowed to attempt a second?

I initially understood it as he'd need to actually make an attack including an attack roll, or it didn't count as "making the first attack." That was the basis for my prior comments.

So long as he can't deliberately double-hop and then make a single attack, I've got no argument to make. This kind of thing just normally isn't a problem because a character usually makes both attacks from the same square, so they'd have the same target pool.