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Let's say Character A outwits Character B's Flurry. Character B then outwit's Character A's outwit. Character B then uses Flurry. If his first attack is a Crit Miss and he loses Outwit but keeps Flurry, does Character A's Outwit go back into play, stopping Character B from using his second attack?
I would say you get the second attack, based on the wording of flurry, you get the second attack even if you loose flurry, and outwit wasn't in use when you started the action.
Also note that character B would still have Flurry even after Character A gets Outwit back as the effect of Outwit ended when it was countered.
Rulebook pages 17-18
Quote
If a power or ability is countered or lost, all game effects of that power or ability
immediately end, but any actions already in progress are resolved normally.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if my FigA with OW counters an opponent's power (let's say FigC's RS), but is then OW'd by FigB... if FigB loses that OW (let's say he hits a Mystic or Crits), then FigA's OW comes back, but FigC's RS (in that example) is still available because the effect of OW can only come back when given a free action to activate it... right?
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
That's pretty much exactly what mirandir just said.
No, he was saying the action in progress could be finished... I'm saying the OW wouldn't resume if it was lost (by being OW'd) and came back (by said OW being lost), they would just be able to OW again on their next turn.
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
While we are all here talking outwit, can someone refresh me on the result of the following:
Batman has outwit through a special. He outwits whatever. Someone attacks him and he loses the special but now has regular outwit.
Does the previously countered whatever remain countered because Batman still has outwit, or does it return because he no longer has the power that he used to counter it originally?
No, he was saying the action in progress could be finished... I'm saying the OW wouldn't resume if it was lost (by being OW'd) and came back (by said OW being lost), they would just be able to OW again on their next turn.
Which is exactly what he said...
No offense but in the short time I have been here I can't help but notice you struggle very badly with all of the rules. Do you play Heroclix? I am curious what your game sessions look like and if it is just people randomly moving pieces making "pew pew" noises.
While we are all here talking outwit, can someone refresh me on the result of the following:
Batman has outwit through a special. He outwits whatever. Someone attacks him and he loses the special but now has regular outwit.
Does the previously countered whatever remain countered because Batman still has outwit, or does it return because he no longer has the power that he used to counter it originally?
No. The use of a particular outwit requires an action. When "that" outwit is lost the power it countered is no longer countered.
The only reason you can't Outwit a power, then push off that outwit and use another outwit from a different source (Superman Enemy, Resource, etc) is because the rules say you can't use a free action to use the same power twice in the same turn.
Visible Dials and Pushing Damage need to be optional. This is the way.
No offense but in the short time I have been here I can't help but notice you struggle very badly with all of the rules. Do you play Heroclix? I am curious what your game sessions look like and if it is just people randomly moving pieces making "pew pew" noises.
First off, I'll vouch for burleigh2 and knowing the rules from knowing him IRL. BTW burleigh2 since you probably didn't know this was me, it's Jacob.
Second off, I believe your response here was a bit uncalled for. I'm sure that this was just a misunderstanding/misread of posts and burleigh2 got mirandir and daderangeddwarf mixed up. Mirandir and daderandeddwarf are posing separate issues and I believe this is what burleigh2 was trying to address.
Last edited by DrastNeverWas; 03/18/2015 at 19:12..
No. The use of a particular outwit requires an action. When "that" outwit is lost the power it countered is no longer countered.
The only reason you can't Outwit a power, then push off that outwit and use another outwit from a different source (Superman Enemy, Resource, etc) is because the rules say you can't use a free action to use the same power twice in the same turn.
I know that you can not use a free action to activate the same thing twice. That was never part of the question.
First off, I'll vouch for burleigh2 and knowing the rules from knowing him IRL. BTW burleigh2 since you probably didn't know this was me, it's Jacob.
Second off, I believe your response here was a bit uncalled for. I'm sure that this was just a misunderstanding/misread of posts and burleigh2 got mirandir and daderangeddwarf mixed up. Mirandir and daderandeddwarf are posing separate issues and I believe this is what burleigh2 was trying to address.
I appreciate that, Jacob (and no, I didn't realize that was you).
And to Zandig, Jacob beat me to saying it, but that was quite uncalled for. I was referring to an entirely different situation of OW being lost and regained than what Mirandir (or daderangeddwarf, but I was referring to Mirandir in either case) said. I'm not referring to the OW'd power returning, I'm referring to the OW itself returning but that OW's use no longer being in play. Y'see, I was answering the question on a deeper and more complex level than what they were asking (more layers of OW in play).
Before you go about attacking someone's answer, Zandig, make sure you're actually reading their entire statement and understanding what it means. I've been a judge since Fantastic Forces (with a break after my Venue closed) and I know the rules... sometimes I type too fast or don't re-read my answer to make sure it sounds right until after I hit submit (with the "Safety net" of editing, I'm not always as cautious ), but I've gotten most all of my answers correct when I completed my thoughts aside from disagreeing with the WK interpretation of it (including but not limited to 2 different relics that are worded the same and have drastically different effects).
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
I appreciate that, Jacob (and no, I didn't realize that was you).
And to Zandig, Jacob beat me to saying it, but that was quite uncalled for. I was referring to an entirely different situation of OW being lost and regained than what Mirandir (or daderangeddwarf, but I was referring to Mirandir in either case) said. I'm not referring to the OW'd power returning, I'm referring to the OW itself returning but that OW's use no longer being in play. Y'see, I was answering the question on a deeper and more complex level than what they were asking (more layers of OW in play).
Before you go about attacking someone's answer, Zandig, make sure you're actually reading their entire statement and understanding what it means. I've been a judge since Fantastic Forces (with a break after my Venue closed) and I know the rules... sometimes I type too fast or don't re-read my answer to make sure it sounds right until after I hit submit (with the "Safety net" of editing, I'm not always as cautious ), but I've gotten most all of my answers correct when I completed my thoughts aside from disagreeing with the WK interpretation of it (including but not limited to 2 different relics that are worded the same and have drastically different effects).
Then I also sort of misread your scenario in your previous post (missed the extra character there). In that case mirandir and burleigh2 are sort of talking about the same thing. Slightly different scenarios same outcome burleigh2 was just going with a more detailed presentation of whats going on. Both of them are correct for the same reason. The outwit will no longer be in play because a countered powers effects will end even if it is returned and it will require another action in order to use the power again in order to have its effects in play again.
Last edited by DrastNeverWas; 03/19/2015 at 14:05..
Then I also sort of missread your scenario in your previous post (missed the extra character there). In that case mirandir and burleigh2 are sort of talking about the same thing. Slightly different scenarios same outcome burleigh2 was just going with a more detailed presentation of whats going on. Both of them are correct for the same reason. The outwit will no longer be in plsy because a countered powers effects will end even if it is returned and it will require another action in order to use the power again in order to have its effects in play again.
Exactly.
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????