So I was looking at this;


And It got me thinking, When can't you use Blades?

I guess I had been assuming that it was during any close attack (aside from object attacks), but this isn't the case..

Although;

-Charge gives you a CLOSE: action
-Exploit Weakness is a CLOSE:
-Flurry is a CLOSE:
-Quake replaces normal damage anyway

I guess no HSS and Blades.. Not something that has come up a lot.
Mind Control.. again, not seen much. And both of these have been emphasized at my venue as "Vanilla attacks" since the rules change.

(one of these moments when I still feel like a noob)

EDIT: would Penance use Blades during Mind Control?

Nifty!

I'm looking forward to a more expert opinion than mine on the whole "Mind Control" question.

Personally I don't see why it wouldn't in this particular case. I long for the day when we can return to better Mind Control.

Yes. Mind control says the mind controlled character can make an attack. This includes the option of making a close attack. Penance can use BCF during a close attack, so she could do so while mind controlled.

Also, since you mentioned quake, I'll point out that quake could be used with BCF if you are only quaking one target. Don't know that I have ever had the chance or inclination to do that, but you could.

"BLADES/CLAWS/FANGS When this character hits and would deal normal damage
during a CLOSE action, you may roll a d6. If you do, deal damage equal to the result instead
of normal damage. Minimum result is this character’s printed damage value -1."

Sorry - needs a CLOSE action

Nope. Quake and BCF also do not work together, because Quake isn't doing "normal damage".

"QUAKE CLOSE: KNOCKBACK. Make a close attack targeting all adjacent opposing characters.
If more than one character is targeted, each hit character is dealt 2 damage instead of normal
damage."

You ignored the whole part of Penance’s special attack power that allows for blades/claws/fangs during close attacks instead of CLOSE actions.

It allows her to use B/C/F when using her Generation X trait. Also, yes B/C/F can normally only be used with CLOSE actions.

She can use it during any close attack, not only through her GenX trait. Give her exospex or another way to get hypersonic speed and she could use it during that.

How does all this play out for mind control (or maybe incap)?

Do you get to mind control as close attack, roll for bcf damage, but MC says "no damage" so does that even matter? (same with incap?)

There seems to be some confusion here. Let's be clear. BCF normally requires two things: (1) CLOSE action and (2) normal damage.

Mind control attacks do not deal normal damage so they fail (2) even if they are CLOSE.

Quake is a CLOSE, and deals normal damage if it has only one target. IF it has more than one target, it deals 2 damage instead of normal damage, so would fail requirement (2).

Incapacitate does something instead of normal damage, so fails requirement (2) even if it is a CLOSE.

Finally, the BCF requirements for Penance are different on any click where she has her special power (which is all clicks). For her the requirements are (1) close attack and (2) normal damage. During mind control she can make a close attack and will deal normal damage. So she can use BCF while mind controlled.

EDIT: For full accuracy I should have stated that BCF also requires a hit, we will call that (3) and assume there is a hit in all scenarios.

Ohhhh so it's while SHE'S BEING mind controlled

NOT when she USES mind control (because it's an attack that does no damage)

Since you asked when you can't use B/C/F in general, I'll just point out that you can't normally use it with Close Combat Expert, since it's a POWER, not a CLOSE.

Penance can use them together, though, if you found a way to give her CCE.

Not quite...
BLADES/CLAWS/FANGS When this character hits and would deal normal damage during a CLOSE action, you may roll a d6. If you do, deal damage equal to the result instead of normal damage. Minimum result is this character’s printed damage value -1

Emphasis is mine. You couldn't get the damage boost from CCE... but now that you mention it, Penance could do +2 AV with it and Blades as CCE just modifies normal damage/ attack.

Yeah okay, she couldn't get the damage modifier on top of B/C/F, but as you said, she could use the +2 attack together with B/C/F. So she can use them together.

I think that someone here is forgetting the Rule "Replace then Modify". If Penance would be able to get CCE she could be able to raise the damage dealt by B/C/F because of that rule.
Remember, whenever a wording says "instead", "halve" or something with a meaning that is the same of these two, a REPLACEMENT IS IN ACTION and then you have to apply the Rule "Replace then Modify".