This idea will probably get me a few death threats from ChargeApes, but here goes anyway...

To begin with, a solution to the charge issue needs to satisfy a few different criteria:
1) Easy to understand and remember.
2) Not make the problem worse.
3) Not reduce the power of mechs at all.

Theory The reasoning for charge that I've heard thrown around, was that salvaged mechs need something to do other than run around getting shot at. A last ditch attack, so to speak.

If this is truly the case, then only salvaged mechs (or mechs in similar dire situations) should be using this tactic in a reasonable rules environment. It should not be a viable tactic for first strike.

Now, I'm not going to go into how charge should be fixed. That's been done over and over on this board. What I am going to suggest is how to give salvaged mechs something to make them "useful", so that the forementioned argument for keeping charge as it is is no longer valid.

Solution:
Self Destruct When a mech is "salvaged", the owner can choose to self-destruct the mech. Give the mech a move order, but do not move the mech. Place 3 tokens next to the mech. That mech can do nothing during the current turn. At the beginning of the following turn, the mech explodes doing damage to a 3 inch radius around the mech. The amount of damage done by the mech is equal to its point cost divided by 100 (round up). Mechs destroyed in this way count as being destroyed by your opponent, and add to his/her VC1 totals.

For example: Bounty Hunter is driven into salvage with Arnis Drummond and a pair of Cavaliers all in base contact. The owner of Bounty Hunter gives the mech a self destruct order. On the owner's following turn, Bounty Hunter explodes doing 4 clicks of damage to every unit in a 3 inch radius around him. If the Cavaliers and Arnis could not escape for some reason, they would all take 4 clicks.

Outcome: A change to the charge rules could be put in place to eliminate its appeal as a "first strike" attack and reducing it to the place it should have held all along: a last ditch attempt to do something useful.

Comments?

At this point, the 'Mech is so close to death that when a player sees you start a self-destruct they simply finish you off, which might be hard against a SC player but no one else, leading to abuse. Also Liao would have a considerable disadvantage.

Self-distruct is not THAT bad of an idea, but the way you suggested it is terrible.

Perhaspe if charge was limited to mechs that cannot make a ranged combat attack (Meele Mechs or Salvaged ones...)

Mid :)

Perhaps you should expound upon why it is a "terrible" idea? Don't take pot shots at other people's ideas, unless you have a better solution to suggest. Anyway...

Sure, they could finish you off...which could fail. Or they could try to get all of their pieces away from the blast.

You could make the blast occur during the turn the order is given, but that could lead to far more obvious abuses.

Personally, I don't believe the "give salvaged mechs something to do" reason is valid enough reason to preserve the horrid charge rules. However, there are people who make that argument, so I'm trying to address that as a means to move forward on a fix for charge.

Though I tend to like that idea, it really puts non-melee mechs at a huge disadvantage, while keeping the broken rules intact for those mechs with a melee attack.

People, charging always has been a viable first-strike style option since the days of BattleTech, so the chances of getting it changed from that are pretty much nil. However, if you want to "nerf" the charge, make armour defend against it like it does close combat attacks. There you go, simple fix that doesn't completely destroy charging as a very viable (and powerful) option that it's always been.

Read the CBT rules recently? Charge in CBT did a considerable amount of damage to the charging mech as well as to the charged. If MWDA had rules like that, charge would be back where it was in CBT: a last ditch effort. Saying charge was a viable first-strike tactic in CBT is just wrong.

Want to make it like CBT? Fine. The attacking mech takes its own damage primary while dealing out its primary damage +1. So, if it dealt out 5 damage to the target, it would take 4 damage in response.

I've used charges as a primary attack in CBT myself, and done more damage to my opponent than I have to myself with it every time. By making armour defend against charging, it'll take a decently big 'Mech to make charges a viable weapon. Arnis (the one everybody whines about) has a charge of 5 clicks, heavy armour would kill the +1 damage, and hardened armour gives it a -1 damage on the charge so you only take 3 clicks. I'd much rather charge with Barry Segal than Arnis Drummond. Barry has a charge of 7 at his starting click, and can still charge for 4 (just under Arnis' charge) by the time he's on his salvage clicks. That's not to mention the fact he has no repair markers, an 11 attack (which drops to 6 at its lowest), and a 21 defense (15 at lowest).

I say if they made armour protect against charges and death from above, things would be peachy, even if you couldn't hurt Arnis with a close combat attack until he drops past his first repair marker.

:blink: :Blink: :rolleyes: :cheeky:

I think we have found our answer!
:devious:

Hardly. Unless you charge from point blank or about four hexes from in CBT, you do more damage on a charge than you take. So making a charge do equal damage isn't going to fix anything or make it any more like CBT's charge.

I would post a reply about the merits of charge but it is no use. Why bother, I will just go about being a "ChargeApe." God forbid I use a game mechanic, so I guess you people using your 14" ranges should stop shooting at that long range and wait until the other player is in range to strike back so that way it will be fair. When you do that, I will stop charging you. Not that I charge a whole lot as it is.

Not a flame, I just want others to see the other side of the fence. Switch armies with someone next time you play. Take a short-range force up against a long-range force and tell me how you fair. I bet you will use every advantage you can get to beat that nasty 14” range or all of that heavy armor, perhaps you might even charge.

Exactly MeanKitty. And notice, its usually the same people who defend Tank Drops when they're suggested to get redone that whine and complain about charges. Hmm, guess that says something, doesn't it people? If tank drops are here to stay, so's charging. Deal.

If Arnis charges for 5 and takes 4 in return, or Barry come charging to do 7 and takes 5 for his trouble thats fine by me.

im thinking that wouldreduce chargemonkeys, but it isnt realistic at all. there is no reason a mech shouldnt be able to charge if not in salvage because a mech can always charge no matter what state it's in

mash

And what style of munch do you play, good sir?

Bleh. I could see that happening only if the 'Mech performing the charge is doing so at a range that isn't a running distance for it.

In my opinion, if we use the CBT rules like you said above, where if something charges for 5 and takes 4, that will solve our problem I think...

It would keep people from charging unless they really have to, and if something does charge, it could get blown up the next turn or two.