an artillery piece with 2 or more pogs is ridiculous. it basically has 2 orders(or three). artillery is the only piece that doesn't have to divide up its damge between multiple targets. where as every other unit has to.
artillery has its place in the game, but it shouldn't be the dominate force that it is. in my opinion all arty should be limited to one pog.

Perhaps you are right, but multi-pogs are here to stay.

What about a simple fix to the "current meta-game" of 4 SS A4 arty: Limit one artillery piece per 150 points of build total. Just an idea. Maybe someone else already thought of it, but I've been off the forum for a while because of MLB Sportsclix and general busy-ness.

its not the arty piece i have a problem with, or how many you use. its the fact that every piece in the game, except artillery, has to divide its damge when attacking multiple targets.

Just Imagine if they allowed Mechs or Vehicles to do full damage per target hit, my Mech / Tank can target 4 units I sucsessfully hit all 4 and all 4 take 5 damage EACH !
I can see it now " BROKEN " will have a new meta-game meaning!

You've got to consider something, though, people. There are 'Mechs, vehicles, and infantry that can do 1-3 damage to every target they hit. How? Anti-personnel. I really don't have a problem with multi-pog artillery as long as the damage on an artillery doesn't become greater than 3.

I've said it a few times before...but IMHO, a Multi-Pogged Arty shot should NOT be able to use any offencive SE's for said shot...

EXAMPLE:

A SS A4 player wants to place 2 pogs. OK...well, neither of those 2 pogs can be AP...If he/she were to place 1 pog, then SURE, it can be AP if he/she chooses...THAT would ballance the thing IMHO...

mid :)

Its a theoretical army, not the "current meta-game" of reality. I have seen it theorized, and maybe 2 people in the country have the pieces to play. Its not real (yet). And that army can be beaten.

My fix, erat all artillary to not have any kind of hardened or heavy armor. Make them ALL WEAK like dragons fury! :)

You can't really change stats on the dial of a figure that has been released. And WK refuses to ban units (which I don't disagree with). But it IS easy to change stats on the pogs as they can be loaded to the website for download. On the same token (no pun intended) it would be a fairly easy matter to FAQ certain units to change the NUMBER of pogs they have.

IMHO I think ANY arty with a damage value of 2 or more should be restricted to 1 pog only.

Think of what would happen. Suddenly Thumpers might actually see at least a minor amount of use because they would be some of the few arty units that would be very order efficient and be able to damage a number of units at once due to multiple pogs. As a result mechs with heavy armor or better would actually start to have some use again.

The HL Sniper would start to see use as it would be one of the few (or only?) arty that could target multiple units with AP damage. In short ... we would actually see arty units other than the SW Padilla, Kenneth, and the SS A4 actually used for probably the first time since those units listed above first came out. And it would decrease the number of arty heavy armies dominating the current scene. If the SS A4, Kenneth, and the SW Padilla could only target 1 unit instead of two ... how many players would try to build entire armies out of them? Likely some would still try ... but with the severe loss of efficiency I doubt a lot would.

So I keep seeing threads like this. I keep hearing the arguments against AP artillery etc. In my experience very few people play these units. While I confess to giving artillery a set place in my armies it's never any of these 'super-batteries'. A single SS Long Tom is my standard. If I don't use that then I generally do not use artillery at all. Given the low damage values of artillery, AP or not, it's most effective at moving your opponent around rather than inflicting damage. If you can control the flow of the manoeuvre game with artillery you can use your heavier hitters to safely control the damage game. I have seen the formerly dreaded SS DI Towed AA Artillery army (before the rules errata that banned stacking) and my single Long Tom gave me the control over the field I needed to get my mech in place to destroy his towed units and then mop up the rest of his force. It's all in the artillery users mindset. I think a slight shift, away from offensive artillery to support artillery, makes a great deal of a difference in the game as well as in the effectiveness of armies. (On a personal note, it's great to watch your opponent sneer at you for placing an artillery pog seemingly in the middle of nowhere and then get very frustrated because he can't safely move into that space because of the threat of your artillery.)

I have to confess that I am currently an artillery addict. I try to place 2 units in every build I put together. I also ALWAYS put in a Mech. I use the Merc sniper, SS DI Towed AA or the new SS Arrow IV all because they have AP. I either use them to chase the opposing Mech, counterbattery fire or go after formations. I haven't ever tried to use them to deny terrain access but it is an interesting thought. I don't usually play faction pure, I don't have a true preference (tho I lean towards DF). I believe in using what's out and in the best possible combinations. I like running a combined arms force: Mech, Artillery, Air Support and Ground pounders (yes even the occasional tankdrop). Call it whatever you want, it's in the game and it works. I have fun when I play whether I win or lose and I never criticize the other build. Well almost never, I am one of those "It's called MechWarrior" people.

After 30+ years in the Martial Arts, tradional & non-traditional, this all reminds me of the 'Bruce Lee' controversies. What works vs. what used to be done, pretty vs. effective. I can't tell you the number of times I have had an opponent pick themself up and complain that I couldn't do that technique because it wasn't what they were taught by their system or their teacher didn't 'like it done that way'.

I believe in playing by the rules but I'm not going to ignore the part of the rules because someone else doesn't like them or want to use them.

I may not like the changes but I try and adapt and move on.

Well Flame on (which used to mean something entirely different...back in the old days).

NOT to FEAR,

DADDY MACK IS HERE

I am the best player where Gary plays, and Gary is always a great sport, i.e. always play a mech!

And Wizkids shouldn't listen to you Bull, FAQ everyone months mean unstability to the game, look at magic, it's a better play tested product because IT'S play tested by MACK DADDY player like me. Protour players, higher echeelon players and so on. Wizkids need to stop the fluff and listen to US MACK DADDIES.

NOW...here is how to balance it......playtest with MAC Daddy players, then have a few of us experts in classic BTECH history to fit the game to the fluff history. I love the old classic battletech, just finishing re-reading some of the old EXODUS (Twilight of the clan series.), but I am also a great player. Nowadays, you ask one of the newb who is Aidan Pryde or Leo Showers....you get a confused look on their face. You need players like us, but wizkids will never ask, they like their inhouse stuff better!

But is okay, because changes are bound to happen, so as long as I win my 10 LE's a month I am happy. Back to topic

Currently few good players are discussin homeboy strategy talk on the mwrealms, because of the censorship and dictatorial position taken by wizkids.

Anyway onto the strategy thread. Arrow IV's are a pain in the butt, with their low min range, and multiple stagger infantry rules and so on.

I feel that a 4x Arrow IV army (with appropriate AA and transport support) would definitely be degenerate, and tough to be beat because of their accuracy, but... BUT

In non-campaign, H2H games, small amount of infiltrating, along with NOE VTOL (behind building crawl), can still do some damage if your rolls are decent. Of course, the key to taking out Arrow IV or multiple or them, is proper counterbattery fire, with transport and board and load strategies.

Anyway, us pro players are hoping wizkids come out with a protour format - and give us gomers something to make some money. Heck no point in picking on newbs and so on - it gets boring fast. I have more fun doing EBAY-warrior!

So try different strategy, I am sure Arnis Rush will work okay, and other interesting alternative like BR scout drop, the key against Arrow IV is if you opponent is good
-

YOU ARE DEAD,

- if your oppponent is mediocre...you can live:p :p

Mech Snoop - thanks for the kind words.

Thoughts whirling around in my head..( said with much laughter AT myself) "Gee ... I always thought I was the best player anywhere I played" of course if you're going to include such trivial things as winning I guess I have to bow to others.

I think some sort of a pro level is a great idea for tose who are really good (not me). But then I would have to ask for some sort of handicapp like they do in other games/sports. Pros can't just walk in and take over a lower level event. Then we have to worry about the 'Pete Rose" gambling thing and all the congressional oversite and.....no wait this is only a 'friendly' game....isn't it? I always hated 'keepsies' and I always lose when put $$ on the line. OH Well.

But a pro level competition would be very interesting, even more than Nationals (which I haven't been to either)

I have been a gamer for years and do love the system. The problem is that though i agree that artillary is useful 3 pogs at armor pierceing is wrong. The rule change helped but not really.

The current top rated player that i play way to much plays as of a couple of weeks ago

3 SS DI Towed Artillary
2 Donars DF
2 J37's
1 Bart Bradshaw I believe (Arbelest?)
and trike upon trike upon trike.

I have tried to engage using every combined force rules I know of.
It doesn't matter. When the basing rules for his VTOL's are applied the games comes down to his artillary pounding his opponets to little tiny bits and his infantry usually dying s they hold your mech or tanks still for the tokens. or you shutdown trying to get away.

I love the game but this type of army is not only unrealistic but leads to the problem that magic has. The super rare expensive pieces rule the game.

fix ( No armor piercing on artillary tokens (pogs) and though artillary cant over lap for damage all pogs from one gun must be touching.

It is after all only one order

Behemoth, Mars, DI morgan.... they'd all sell for rediculs amounts of cash then ^_^

I guess what you could do is.... if it has 2 pogs, and it uses both, give it two tokens so it can't attack next turn, but don't apply pushing