I’m looking for feedback on this DF army/strategy. The Idea is fully developed, and I think it’s valid, but completely untested in the real world. Constructive comments are always appreciated.

128pts Danni Haag
104pts Donar x2
72pts Partisan AA vehicle x2
44pts Joust tank
84pts Scout ATV squad x6
432pts total leaves 18 points free - not sure what to put here, probably fenrir BA or random off faction unit to meet scenario criteria (or maybe a bigger mech?)

Not sure what type of terrain suits this army best but here is the battle plan.

The ATV’s infiltrate to base/BBQ artillery/AA vehicles or (last choice) mechs, basically sacrificing themselves to ensure air superiority and buy time with out pogs for the rest of the units to move down field into position (taking the lead on VC3 is a nice bonus).

Danni Haag infiltrates for a head start then advances and primarily starts looking for side/rear arcs against opposing long range units forcing them to keep moving (and heating up), or as a secondary tactic sets up a field of fire working with the available terrain to stand off shorter ranged pieces and keep them bottled up in or near their deployment zone if possible. Also danni’s 270 degree arc makes it tough for the enemy to flank her.

The donars serve as harassers, one moving every turn and using their superior mobility to take side/rear arc shots on vehicles or mechs where they can get them, or at the least to force them to keep moving (that’s a recurring theme with this army incase you haven’t noticed). I anticipate the donars being the primary means of delivering damage to units which run away from danni’s 12IT.

The partisans and joust start the game as a formation (joust in the center or on the side I cant make up my mind) and will likely work as a formation throughout the game, with the joust as primary firer to hit high defense targets (3 dmg pulse lasers with a 13 attack cooks big mechs from 10 inches away), and the partisans taking down any vtols or infantry formations. Once they get down field they can split up if circumstances warrant it, but for economy of orders they will likely remain in formation.

The overall idea is to use the mobility of these units to stay out of the opponents firing arcs/ranges while keeping them within my own firing arcs/ranges. Thus forcing them to either keep moving or let me have the sweet shots. My own units are less susceptible to these tactics precisely because they have the mobility needed to execute them. Essentially we dance until they make a mistake or get sick enough of it to let me shoot them in the back. If he tries to pin down my tanks or donars in an attempt to make me push them I should be able to put enough firepower in his rear arc to make him regret it. I will try to keep my turns short and do most of my thinking on the opponents turn, from a tempo perspective this is usually frustrating to opponents in chess, hopefully the same will prove true here.

The ATV’s are frail however and so I will almost certainly lose a number of them. So early in the game I pick my “marks”, units in the opposing force that have a total point value greater than the ATV’s I expect to lose. And I focus on eliminating primarily those units, (most likely the artillery pieces or AA vehicles that the infantry has weakened).

A hidden benefit in this army build is the complete lack of heavy and hardened armor among my units. Right now you are going “ :/ how is NOT having heavy or hardened armor an advantage?” so I will explain. Any armor piercing units (I see a quite a bit of AP where I play) that the opponent may field lose the benefit of that special equipment thus making their units overcosted for their battlefield effectiveness. It’s a subtle thing, and in the end it may not make a lot of difference but every little bit helps.

A potential weakness in this build is the inability to capture opposing units. I chose “focus” over “balance” in forming this army and capture capability is what went by the wayside. I don’t think I’ll miss it much since I will be taking the fight to the enemy deployment zone the odds of getting captives back to my own deployment zone in time seem slim anyway.

Now that I’ve explained the basic plan what weaknesses do you see? What kind of army would you build to defeat this one? Are there different units which would more efficiently fill the same basic roles as these units? I would appreciate constructive comments.

Thanks.

P.S. an alternate version of this army trades a donar for the LE balac and uses 3 partisans instead of 2 partisans and a joust, but im not sure how to round out the point total. THX

Well just beware of Danni getting charged/DFAed or even rammed as her defense ain't that great. Especially vulnerable to this since after only 3 damage she isn't much more than a nuisance anymore. Also I don't think you really need 2 partisans as your donars can kill opposing vtols also. I would switch at least one of them to something else.

I agree with Klaital, leave one of the partisans behind and bring in either another infantry group or a fast vehicle to support your mech. I like this infantry combo: CBA, Shock Trooper, Purifier BA they are 14 points each, 10 movement with jump jets, or 3 Guila suits to infiltrate with your mech. That still leaves you with a few points to play with.

I would drop Danni (ain't THAT good anymore) and use your remaining points for Kirasawa which is a much stronger mech,faster and more resistant!
I would also, as stated before,drop one of the Partisans 'cause you will already have air superiority with his/her anti aircraft vehicles based and you having 2 DF Donars!
that will leave you with 35 points if my calculums are correct.
I would add a Crow, or maybe more infantry.

What do you think, El_Heffe

Thanks for the feed back.

Ive recently been looking at janina lukic to replace danni haag. I think the evade ability would be a big plus allowing for alot more runing which would probably off set the loss of danni's infiltrate.

I coud use Kirasawa. Ive always played him as more of a CC mech and this army is more about avoiding base contact and manuvering, I see that he could work though now that you mention it.

I really like the partisans because of their anti personnel. its useful even after the infantry are gone. Because the partisan has 2 targets it deals full damage to both instead of dividing. This is true even if the targets arent infantry.

I worry about running short of orders if I put in a 3rd vtol because they have to work alone. But what do you guys think about swaping a donar for the LE balac? worth it? or should I stick with 2 donars?

THX

Good army, but I don't think you need 2 partisans, maybe take out one of the partisans and put in a maixm to transport the other one in so you can easily hunt down vtols and ifantry from a far. And maybe put in a Raider instead of Danni. Good army though.

How about this for a general purpose “rapid deployment” vehicle formation?

44pts DF Joust
43pts DF SM1 Tank Destroyer (Keep the SM1 in the middle so its flanks are covered.)
36pts DF Partisan AA

There is “synergy” in that all three move at least 10 inches, all three have a 10 inch range, but a lot of “variety” in the special equipment. AP cracks tough nuts, Pulse cooks ‘em once they are cracked, and AnP/AA is self explanatory. This formation doesn’t have the whiz-bang of tank drop but, hey, it only needs 1 order.

Comments?

I like the 3 tank combo seems to be effective. You just better watch out for Arty. A pog placed in the middle of them could hurt badly. But all in all I like the idea. Just use as many atvs as you can :).

Well, the mix of tanks is a good idea, but generally it just means anyone fielding arty and trkes is going to have a field day if they have turn 1. It's also a SE balanced idea, but the ranges on the units (except for the Partisan AA ability) would allow them to be outranged. It's much cheaper to consolidate all that into a Mech, especially a capable one like a Raider or if you have her, J. Sterling; she costs the same as Danni but is more battleworthy.

The other thing is that, for you to capitalize on your trikes basing your opponents' assets, you will need arty. That way you can shell stuff while not having to wait to move units into position. The DF Arrow IV is a good unit. Or if you prefer it, use the Merc Sniper.

Based on what you've said and a few things off the top of my head here's a prelim army:

A. Kirasawa - 142
DF Donar x2 - 104
Partisan AA - 36
Trikes x6 - 84
Merc. Zahn - 30
Fenrir BA x3 - 54

You can have your entire force on the move with this army. You can either choose to have the Fenrir or the Partisan in your transport. Kirasawa can hang back, (but always keeping targets within 23" :p).

Or you can take out one of the trikes, the zahn and the fenrir and place 2 DF Arrow IVs in there. Or keep 1 Arrow IV and use 3 Shocktroopers and trade out the Partisan for a SM1.

Well good luck playing dude. And take care. If you see any probs with the armies, let me know. See ya.

Heres an army to go with my early suggestion that might be effective with what seems to be your playing style.
DF Raider- 134
DF Donar x2 - 104
DF Partisan AA - 36
DF Maxim - 31
DF ATVs x4- 56
DF SM1-43
DF Fenrir BA- 18
DF Shocktroopersx2-28
Total: 450
Put the shocktroopers in formtion with the Fenrir and the 4 Atvs together if you want. Depending what kind of army you are facing you can either put the partisan in the maxim for long range anti infantry & vtol duty or the sm1 for a good mid level tank drop.

@ Klaital and Frankvas and Planeswalker thanks for your comments.

@ Wolverine_lor Agreed arty is a definite problem for any vehicle formation, between the ATV’s and the VTOL’s hopefully the arty threat will be sufficiently degraded to allow the tanks to be useful, but proper play will be needed; to be sure.

@ Heckla and Draco2222 I’m gonna go with the second partisan for now but I think you’re both on to something with the Raider.

Here is what the current build looks like:

134 Raider
104 Donar x2
072 Partisan x2
044 Joust
084 ATV x6
012 mortar squad (not the best but not useless and it gets the points just right)

Total: 450

My venue had sealed this weekend so it’s still untested in the real world, but I’m gonna try to put some mileage on it soon. Even if it means swapping out the mortar squad for a liao mini gun cycle or a ROTS guila suit. I’ll post again at that time, but if anybody has comments in the mean time I’d love to hear/read ‘em. Especially regarding the raiders 19 defense vs potential chargers and any way to negate/prevent/avoid a charge. (hindering terrain maybe?)

BTW no one has comented on the joust. That thing is wicked if you ask me ... anybody?

3 damage pulse and evade
soooo sick

The Partisans are nice but the defence is too low. I've learned that their place is behind the front lines. I might also drop one donar. With only 3 orders, two vtols that can't form a formation might be a liability. On the other hand try adding the DF HQ and the LE infantry w/ commend. They are only 50 points total, but two command rolls will help your order flow immensely. Try using light vehicles like scimitars or even the dreaded vv1 as sidecars for the joust. They are nice throw away units to pin that pesky mech in place and are weak enough that if the mech decides to bash it, it'll probably die leaving the mech open to a ranged attack.

As far as the Raiders def of 19 goes you have 2 options against a Mech with a higher speed value.
#1- Avoid the charger with your mech through running in circles around blocking terrain while you reek havoc on it with either double donars, arty, tank drop, or a combo of any of the 3.
#2- Keep a group of 3 shocktroopers and/or some heavy fire support nearby the Raider at all times. If you get charged simply break away with your Raider (the Raider will either have evade or jump jets as long as your not takin 7 or more damage so you're breakin on nething but a 1) and open fire with everything you've got and then base the charger with the shocktroopers. Also the Raider maintains its damage and has a workable attack value after taking even a pretty heavy hit so you may be able to smack the charger back.
So far I've been very successful with the first method, but its not always do able. The Raider is a very powerful range support mech. It's evade along with its incredible heat dial allow you to keep it moving and firing for a very long time without dangering itself from heat. Unless the target unit's range is lower than 12, move the Raider up to fire after hitting the target with donars, tank drop, and/or arty. There's little chance the damaged enemy unit will be able to hit your 21 def at a range, so you'll make mence meat out of them with your 11 attack and 4 damage with armor piercing and if the opposing unit runs away you can chase it down with ease. Only charge with the Raider if absolutely neccessary. While its stats are still good its no where near its starting click and its def drops to the easily hit able 17, so make sure you won't be gettin back.