Well wizkids banning of entire sets, is from my years of experience, one of those death knell signals for a ccg, tcg, or cmg. Decipher's Star Wars, death knell was the continuous reprinting of the main characters in various forms. Now combined with a shoddy game system it's a warning sign.

Now a few companies can get away with banning sets. Most known is Wizards of the coast, because of Magic's strong game system , it shrugged off the lost of ticked players. In a way it was a good move as it reduced prices overall and allows the cycling in of new material.

MW however can't afford this type of hit. First off the game is expensive. I dont understand what they mean by new players unless they mean kids, which is the wrong target market. $9.99 a booster with poor distribution of figures, is much higher than Magic boosters.(No ebay singles arguments, comeon who can't resist buying boosters or cases?) Second the game is not popular enough to take a hit like this. Though of course the death knell usually takes a few expansions to take affect. Third wizkids game system is full of holes thanks to themselves. Clean up requires open heart surgery. But if they werent so greedy and were more innovative this wouldn't have happened.

Longterm collectability, my judgement the way the figures are and the gameplay, it will never have serious collectible value. Other games had at least artwork going for them. Not 12 repaints of the same figure over and over. You also don't need 12 copies of Gunsho Junko.

Decipher's Star Wars' slow death:
(I feel I have authority to speak regarding this game as I've played it for years and twice almost went to world's, having a rank of 1923)

Limited / Unlimited = success
A New Hope = success
Hoth = success
Degobah = success
Cloud City = success, however reprinting of mains caused some concern over veterans
EPPs = failure. New better main characters gave all players zero incentive to buy unlimited boosters. Veterans began to view Decipher as sell-outs.
Jabba's Palace = partial success. With the diminishing of veterans, new players slowly lose interest.
Special Edition = failure. Adding new features to the game and a new Vader gave veterans clear indications of Decipher's intentions.
Endor = failure. Jedi Luke and Emperor as ultra-rares confirmed players' questioning of Decipher. Veterans lose confidence.
Death Star II = failure. Veterans already lost confidence in game when others play sheer multiples of Jedi Luke and Emperors
Episode I = failure. Just an attempt to revive a dead game.


Young Jedi = I heard it was a pretty good game, but then once the pod-racing came out, it was clear to all it was just another sell-out.

I agree with you that WizKids' plan to retire sets will have a serious negative impact on the company's bottom line, but for different reasons than you mentioned. I have been a careful observer of WizKids since Mage Knight was first introduced in late 2000. I'm a retailer and I've sold a lot of WizKids products here in St. Louis. I've held weekly tournaments for Mage Knight, HeroClix, and Mechwarrior ... and I'll be a strong supporter of SportsClix. I've been a Warlord, a Judge, a Battlemaster, and now a Coach.

One thing I could always count on was that, at least in the short run, WizKids would always protect my customers' investment in collectible figures. Sure, I agree with you that those plastic figures may not have "long-term" collectible value. But my customers at least knew that their figures would have some value remaining when they decided to get out of the game. (They usually get out of the game due to frustration over incessant, knee-jerk, bone-headed rules changes ... but that's another issue.)

Of all the players that I had enthusiastically playing Mage Knight in my store back in the summer of 2001, less than a handful continue to play the game or collect the figures. But when the ones who did get out decided to leave, they were able to recover at least a part of their investment by selling their Storm Golems, and Shades, and Solonavi Strikers to excited new players.

That renewal process has already started to collapse. Today, a former Mage Knight player ... who still maintains a enviable world ranking ... marched boistrously through my store announcing to everyone, "You better dump all of your figures from those earlier sets on eBay before they're worthless." Did WizKids even consider the financial consequences for its collector customers, or for its loyal members of the trade? Did they even ask?

Regarding the Decipher SW sets:

Limited / Unlimited = success

Visual interesting but the worst play balance any CCG has ever overcome to gain widespread popularity.

Degobah = success

The set that very nearly put a gun to SW:CCG's head and pulled the trigger? It took years for Decipher to finally rid the game of this set's excesses.

Nobody bought unlimited boosters, anyway. EPPs sparked a feedy frenzy which made both Decipher and the retail stores a killing. They also got a lot more players interested in the game by putting the mains in their hands, and got veterans like me back into it.

You don't see the irony in describing the publisher of a COLLECTIBLE item as "sell-outs"?

Complaining about new features in a game merely feeds corporate suspicion of veteran players' more legitimate concerns about game balance. No reasonable person objects to change, we just don't like untested game mechanics like the Operatives, which were thrown in at the last minute to fill gaps in the set caused by the Lucasfilm approval process.

Agreed there. Worse, Ep.1 was an attempt to deceive and squeeze players dry with the implied assurance, before the announcement of the licensing change, that SW:CCG would expand to include the prequels. If you're going to bash Decipher for anything, this is first in line. Period.

baning sets could mean diffrent things...

1:>_the units have ben destroyed in battle and they won't sell em to us

2:>_they just want a lower income

3:>_they are stoping beacuse as the mecks get stronger playing with old obselete mecks is a waste

Many of us will be sad to see you guys go, but do what you have to.

With FFE sold out. I don't think many people are going to buy DFA, for fear everything in it is useless. So lower income your right.
Destroyed in battle. That's what L5R did with Gold editions. When I stopped playing (the never ending CCG storyline).

The newest mech is the Marauder II. Just about everything else is already old. 100's of years old. Stronger mechs? They rerely make Mechs anymore.

I disagree:

Games perish due to poor design or inattention to the customer base.

MtG regularly bans cards and yet it's still VERY viable today.

I do not have a crystal ball, and cannot tell the future, but so long as WK keeps producing quality expansions, there will be a player base.

One other thing we have to consider. This board and the posters on this board are a small portion of the entire ME players pool. Usually the people on this board have a very negative opinion about the game, but most players are happy to play the game. It is good and works.

Most of us will continue to buy as long as it is worth it.

they don't regularly ban cards, the baned list is small, although they regularly RESTRICT cards to one in a deck

I disagree the posters on this and other boards are a very good indicator of the players and their feelings. This is just a MONEY MAKING GREED FEST by WK. This company and its games on on a downturn. I will continue to play as long as my sets I currently own are playable, but as soon as they ban any of my SS set I quit. SS already doesn't have a viable MECH and if you take away most of the great infantry and vehicles then Maybe its time to try GW games. I hope this doesn't happen. This just proves how much WK cares for its players. I have never once heard a player want a piece or set banned.

this isn't a greed fest its business, #### happens what can i say, they need to stimulate growth and this is what thier reaserchers say will work

Well look,


This destroys the secondary market, and just pushes some of us to go and play other games. I for one will be turning my funds towards Warmachine, and back to 40K. You may say "Fine go on and go we don't need you" and you're right you probably don't, but I promise that I and people liek me will never promote Wizkids junk ever again, and don't kid yourself, this is a company, as all game comapnies are, based on word of mouth. If the buzz is bad then the game will die.


As for decipher, and the #### fest that was the Star Wars CCG. I lived in the area ((north chicago suburbs)) where the World Campion played, and you had to own #### near ever card in the set to be competative and you had to play TWO games! Imagine that you have to bring two different armies to ever Mechwarrior tourney, and be good with both... that is redicules!, and don't get me started on STTNG...


LotR I liked however.


Viper Wing Leader

I am not happy with this at all, but I don't feel it means the game is worthless. I mean, the units can still be used in games. So I am not going to simply flat out quit because of this. But it might well reflect my spending on new expansions. That is, I'll buy a whole lot less.

I also agree that this seems to be targeting the wrong group. I mean.. perhaps they have done research and well know their target players average age, etc.. but this seems to favor the new (i.e. younger) player and not the grizzled lovers of the 'Mech universe. But I think the latter purchases the bulk of their game.

The rules are getting well needed fixes, so I am no longer on the "I won't buy more units until they clean this up" bandwagon. But maybe I'll have to hop onto an entirely new one. :)

It was Wizards greed that made me stop buying new expansions. Type 2 was a money making scheme, nothing more. WKs seems to be moving the same direction. The problem though are the factions. By doing this they are guaranteeing that you will always see a very limited # of core armies. New? Hardly, it will become stagnant. Type 2 is the same way with Magic. Look at the top winners of any tournament. They always have one of a few top decks, curtesy of Type 2 play.

So I will still play, but I doubt I'll be doing much if *any* competitive play, other than perhaps sealed once in a blue moon. I will NOT play a companies "We want more $$$ so we are going to limit what you can play" scheme. I think that format is horrible. Not a good decision at all.

I was hoping that faction purity would somehow become a reality in the future, but I don't see how it is remotely possible limited the # of sets you can use.. feh.

fleabitfox

Banning sets directly affects the prices of many figures and has many economic implications. I expect the value of Stefani Ehli to drop drastically when FFE is announced to be retired.

Note that MTG bans certain CARDS and not SETS. I dont mind if Wizkids ban certain figures which may affect future gameplay but its definitely not right to ban sets. It makes people less willing to buy more now bcos more of the things they buy will become #### some day.

ALthough Wizkids 'claims' to support unrestricted gaming but it wont make any difference. If a figure is not tournament legal...who the heck wants it.

However, I am supportive of Wizkids to ban certain figures if they appear unbalanced for future gameplay. This will not have too great an impact on the consumer's purchase quantity.

In conclusion, this is potentially a very bad move made by Wizkids and they will nevertheless pay by suffering a losss of consumer loyalty. Personally, I expect this adverse implication to be reflected from the sales of Mk: Dark Riders. Many MK gamers at my side have already decided to permanently retire from MK gaming bcos of this.