I just wanted to add that (to me) MW has some big differences from CBT we old players don't like so much.

I think the biggest difference we can see is the weakness of mechs compared to weapon damage. Almost any mech is crippled after 6 cliks (ad some after 4) and this is a damage some unit can deal with a single shot at 14". Ok, this is a fast game, but this is TOO fast!

Another problem is the venting rate (fixed) compared to to-hit value (fast dropping). In CBT it was easier to lose heat sinks than having your weapons hit worse (sensor hit - quite unlikely, and actuator damage - only relative to related weapons and not affecting torso mounted ones). Here when you take a couple of hits you cannot hit back a stuffed moose.

Venting, being fixed, is far too a fundamental value. It tells you how many actions can the unit take without resting! And since the heat dial is fixed too, large part of its negative effects remain the same.
So, units with bad venting can act even one third of the time other good units can act (unless you place ponds everywhere...)

Personally, I' have put venting value on the dial (making it decrease with damage, to simulate desroyed heat sinks) and leave fixed the to-hit value. This will leave even heavily damaged mechs able to hit other units (while in MW, when your attack drops below 8, your mech has nothing left to say)

Finally, it's pretty absurd to classic players that jumping does not generate any heat while running does!!

Of course this is a different game and CBT players can't do much about it...

Right.

My friends and I actually just played a game of CBT last night. One of them hadn't played CBT before, and he was rather taken aback by the fact that stats (except for armour) don't really decrease the same way at all as in MWDA.

Short of being hit on the internal structure, there's not much that decreases your stats in CBT. And of course, having an arm blown off doesn't really decrease your speed. :)

actually thats a cunning idea ... very nice.

btw.: i hate MWDA _and_ CBT ... both have sucky rulesets :)

(theres a thread about this in the CBT-part of this forum, go there if you want to flame for/against CBT/MWDA/US-Government/Al-Quaeda)

I agree with Razorfang above. The Vent rating on the combat dial would be interesting.

I'd also like triple 6s rolled or triple 1s rolled to be indicative of something more than a crit hit or crit miss. Perhaps bonus damage or a morale boost indicated by healing of some sort?

It would be nice if mechs would be harder to kill also in MW and weapons would have similar ranges and damage levels than in CBT(for example AC20 would do 20 clicks of damage).

I agree the heat rules need to be far more forgiving than they are.

Walking should never generate heat. Running and jump-jets, yes.

Repeat actions? No.

Fixing the heat rules would go a long way to making mechs the ultimate battle vehicle they are supposed to be.

I also agree that the attack values drop too quickly for mechs. In CBT, until you start to get internal crits which make mobility difficult (actuator and gyro hits) or take a cockpit hit, your attack values stay the same.

The biggest shortcoming between CBT and MWDA is when damage is assigned. Want to end all debate about cheesy tactics (charge and tank drop) and most cheesy units (artillery)?
Have a damage assessment phase at the end of each round, not each turn. Player A goes, Player B goes, then damage. Then repeat.

Let Arnis charge you. Now he is at point blank range, and the unit that was charged gets 1 shot at him with full attack and damage values before damage is assigned.

Dude I always said to fix this and bring this more in line with CBT


1)Double Weapons Ranges
2) Walk and fireing both wepaons generates heat
3)every thing and everyone on the battlefied may move and shoot every round.
4)Remove the pushing rules.


Viper Wing Leader

The problem of trying to make MWDA more like CBT is the fact that they use ENTIRELY different systems (clicks vs pen and paper), trying to merge the two just doesn't work.

Also remember a goal of MW was for it to play much faster and be less complicated then CBT, hense one reason why the stats work as they do.

I had this idea to make mech stronger:
when you hit someone, you roll 1D6.
If the resulting number is equal or less than the damage you scored, give the target the resulting number of clicks. Otherwise, no damage is done.
Example: I hit you with my Marcel Thennes for 3 points of damage. I roll 1D6 and obtain a 4. No damage is done. If I scored a 2, you would have taken 2 clicks.
This will make matches longer (if you go after total destruction), will give more random damage when hit (in MW every time you inflict the EXACT printed damage. (quite unlikely a mech will always hit with all its primary/secondary weapons for maximum damage!). Finally, infantry will have real trouble in killing mechs (just like in old CBT).

If'n ya hate the game then why are ya here?

Cause he likes to ##### us out for liking it and tell us how much fun we're not having.

Note that he never does actually tell us of any games that are BETTER.

Better Game?


CAV

So, if some one were determined enough to brig CBT to MWDA, it would be impossible? That dose not seem to be a fair assumption on what could possibly make this game better.

If I can move and shot in a single trun, I would say that would make the game move along a lot faster.

go get a clue, thx.

@Croaker:
better games?

Heavy Gear
CAV
Jovian Chronicles
Battleforce 2 (well, its halfway decent)
VOID
VOR - the Maelstrom

thats all, all tabletops, all better - although Jovian Chronicles and Heavy Gear use the same basic rule-system. VOID and VOR are not really true Mecha games, but there are Mecha-like miniatures in some armies.


once again i state:
i like the Battletech Fluff, i have been reading the novels since 1994 and got a full set of them just as well as i own far too many CBT sourcebooks.
i just cant stand the rulesets. thats all.
and everytime somebody frantically tries to defend the unlogic parts of CBT i have to bash my head onto the table. alternatively im writing long postings.

@militiadog:
its funny that i am actually working on a similar project like that.
a proper description: a mecha-tabletop ruleset which is fully compatible to the CBT-RPG, playing considerably faster than CBT with less logic errors and less luck involved. some detail was sacrificed for simplicity, some detail was added. in the end one turn in BTO takes the same time as in CBT, but you end up playing less turns.
betatesting is beginning soon.