Kergy’s Korner #65: 5 Simple Trading Tips, Part Two

Last week I looked at the basics of fair trade. I told you to keep your wants organized, and to set out a list before you traded. I suggested that you made sure that both sides were committed to the deal, understood what they were trading, and to never take advantage of a vulnerable trader – especially a child. I told you that you should make sure never to trade in circles – trading a money card for another one you don’t need defeats the purpose. Finally, I warned that one should never allow desperation to rule their trading – don’t offer the world simply because you NEED a card. In the end you’re selling yourself short, when you’re better off trading up for the card through other trades.

This week I’m following through with three more trading tips, regarding ‘hot’ cards, throw-ins, and, most importantly, your trading partners.

3) Be Cautious With The ‘Hot’ Cards

It’s very easy to get caught up in the whirlwind when a new deck comes out and rules the meta, or when a new set comes out and bold predictions about broken cards come along. It seems as though everyone and their brother wants certain cards, and those cards suddenly fly up in price and demand. This means that a card that may settle in at a couple of bucks in terms of value hits twenty or thirty during the trading frenzy. While it’s nice to take advantage of a ‘hot’ market – dumping those rares you never thought you’d get rid of and getting a decent trade in return – CCGs are no different than other commodities, and high-risk moves rarely pay off. In other words, don’t go nuts trading for the ‘hot’ cards, or you’re more than likely to lose out, and heavily at that.

There are a few examples of this. The first is regarding ‘surprise’ decks. A card like Rigged Elections went through the roof after PC Indy last year, when Craig Edwards came in second while piloting it. For a short while Rigged was trading at over $10, and you could get a second-tier card (like a Hulk, or a Reign of Terror) and more for it. Well, it died down quickly when the surprise factor wore off, and people realized that it was a decent card but wouldn’t see much play. While it still makes a solid throw-in, you can get a play set of foil Rigged Elections for a fiver now. On a slightly larger scale, Longshot was the all for quite a while last summer, and it reached the level of a money card, settling in right behind Beatdowns and Feral Rages as a huge trader. Now Longshot is still a solid trader, but nowhere near that level.

Even so, there is a difference between the two: usefulness and market longevity. Rigged is very narrow – you can only use it in a specific, combo-oriented deck, so its usefulness is low and it doesn’t see much play. Longshot is a much better bet, because it can be used in so many different decks. Even now, with Armies of Qward in the new set, Longshot may make a comeback. Of the two, Longshot is a better investment, and someone stuck with a dozen Longshots will be able to trade them. If you have a dozen Rigged Elections, you’re less likely to find someone to take them off your hands. These are things to think of when you’re stocking up for the binder.

The second example is with huge combos. When you see a major deck pop up and smash the meta, it’s always good to get a piece or two of the combo, but wait a few weeks before going nuts trading for the big pieces, as a) the deck’s weaknesses may be exploited and b) the cards may not be ‘safe’. For example, those who went wild stocking up on Rama-Tuts and Cosmic Radiations are probably regretting it right now. Cosmics will always trade fairly well, though likely not at that level again for quite some time; and Rama-Tut has quickly fallen back down to the dollar range where he belongs after the errata. Like Rigged Elections, when a card like Rama-Tut flies up suddenly it will usually be brief, and you should always trade as many as you have as quickly as possible, and make sure not to ‘invest’ in them.

The same goes for new set hot cards. Weapon of Choice was HUGE when Marvel Knights came out. People claimed it would be THE money card in the set – the new Beatdown/Alfred/etc. It was trading as high as $20 at one point. Now you can get a play set for $20, and a set of EAs for not much more.

Finally, the EA market is a good place to examine. I never understood why people rush out and buy, buy, BUY, the second a new EA hits the market. Supply and demand is key here, and, as more and more hit the market, the prices drop heavily. Why spend $100 or more getting a play set of the new rare Hobby League EA the minute it hits eBay, when you can get them for a third, or less, of that a few weeks later. Granted, some EAs will stabilize, or even go up – but with the exception of the misprints just about every EA has dropped – even the big $10K and PC ones. And I pity the poor souls who dished out a fifty for an Overload EA when it first hit the market…

To sum up: when you’re trading, you’ll want to try and take advantage of a trading boom or spike when it happens by offloading what you have. But don’t fall into the trap of investing a ton of cards or money to get ‘hot’ cards that may turn out to be worth a fraction of what you gave up a couple of weeks down the road. Try to employ as much caution as possible – you’ll kick yourself a lot more for trading those Beatdowns to get a dud than by not trading those Beatdowns and finding out it would have been worth it.


4) The Magic Of Throw-Ins

I got some flak for my comments last week that one should always ‘trade up’. It seems that come people misunderstood my intentions, and thought that I meant you should always get the ‘better deal’ by exploiting or taking advantage of others.

Well you were half right – you SHOULD always get the better deal, but never by exploitation or manipulation.

Allow me to explain: the ‘better deal’ does not mean ‘ripping off’ people. Dollar value doesn’t specifically matter when it comes to being satisfied with a trade, and many people will have multiple considerations when evaluating a card – criteria beyond market value and playability.

This is why I said to be careful not to let your eyes guide your wallet, so to speak. If you desperately want something, rational thought flies out the window, and when the adrenaline dies, you realize that trading a play set of Fizzles for that Wild Ride EA was probably not the brightest of moves. (This is also why one should avoid auctions – specifically trading auctions – as people get absolutely looney in what they offer.)

So where’s the point in all of this? What I generally do, when trading, is push for the deal that I think suits me best – regardless of specific dollar value. And I often go for throw-ins.

Throw-ins are a way of sneaking away with the best deal EVUH, while your trading partner blinks twice and wonders why you’re so excited. For example, I tend to run low on certain uncommons that trade highly and heavily locally. These same uncommons aren’t always valued as highly market elsewhere. I also frequently need foil commons and uncommons for sets, and usually cards that have little to no game play value.

If I make a trade, rare for rare, that is just about equal in value, to ask for another rare I need is not only pushing it, but will likely push my trading partner away. If I ask for a Faces of Doom or a foil Break You, s/he’s more likely to figure it’s a cheap and worthwhile throw-in. Who really wins? Do I get the better bargain because I get a couple of foil commons thrown in to help out my set? Or does my trading partner, who gets a rare that may be worth thirty-seven cents less because of the throw-ins, still get a better deal because they get a rare they really need, and those foil commons were weighing down their binder?

On the flip side, people often make offers to me with an obvious throw-in – usually a foil common or uncommon, or even a cheap rare. They’re obviously aiming for the ‘better deal’, but that ‘better deal’ doesn’t at all change the state of the trade for me; if I’m getting a card I need for a set or deck, I’m often willing to put up that little extra, and still believe I’m getting the ‘better’ deal as well.

Finally, another way of ‘trading up’ that I like to do is to trade multiple smaller cards for a money card – even if I don’t ‘need’ the money card. If someone wants three or four or five rares from me, I’ll immediately look for the Alfreds, Fizzles, Beatdowns, etc. I know that I can more easily trade one big card than I can a bunch of smaller cards, and will sometimes even give up a little ‘more’, knowing that in the long run I’ll get the ‘better deal’

So, always try to go for that ‘better deal’, and always try to ‘trade up’. You can do it with complete honesty and fairness, as long as your definition of trading up is about the little extras and not about taking advantage of other people’s desires.


5) Be Careful Who You Trade With

I saved this for last because it’s likely the most important, most vital, trading guideline:

ALWAYS be careful whom you trade with. It’s not enough that someone has twenty refs – read their ref list, look for a bad trader list, and be wary of any problems that have arisen with someone.

The fewer refs that someone has, the more you should consider doing a background check (ie: speaking to people who have traded with him or her to see how things went), and make SURE that traders with fewer refs than you send first, unless they have a very large ref list or are proven to be reliable. As you build a bigger and better ref list and reputation, you can afford to be less lenient with risky traders. I generally refuse to even simul-send with someone who has fewer than fifteen or twenty refs. As well, check someone’s refs to make sure that they’re not all left within a day or two of each other, and that they’re not all from the same people. If five people each have less than ten refs, and four or five of them are from each other, then they’re immediately suspicious.

As well, the weaker one’s reputation is, the less you should trade with them. Be wary of someone who has two refs and wants all of your EAs or offers you a deal that’s too good to be true (‘I’ll trade my Beatdown for your Rigged Elections foil!!’). Always start small and work your way up; I’m less likely to make a huge trade with someone who has never or barely traded, as there’s no guarantee that if something goes wrong I’ll get my end.

And this doesn’t just work for the Realms – I’ve been buying and selling on eBay for well over five years and have a feedback rating of nearly 600 and I’ve been trading online for nearly ten years, from back when potential traders would exchange huge ref lists and we would all get an email once every couple of days from someone looking to see if so-and-so was a reliable trader…

On eBay I won’t buy an item for more than $10 tops from someone who has less than forty or fifty feedback. When I was trading online, I also wouldn’t trade a high dollar value of cards or comics until I’d traded with someone twice first.

Finally, for any item you’re trading that is worth more than $15-20, you should ALWAYS get insurance. Usually it’s best to just register the letter, which often comes with free insurance, tracking and delivery confirmation requiring a signature. Sure, it costs about $5-10, but it will cost a lot more when that Alfred EA doesn’t reach its destination. You may say ‘well I’ve never had a problem’, but there’s always a first time…

In closing, just remember that the most important aspect of trading is to keep a level head and use common sense. If you do, and both traders are fair and honest, you’re less likely to encounter problems and both sides will be happy. You don’t have to be extraordinarily generous or let people take advantage of YOU, you just have to treat others with respect and fairness. Just remember that your reputation precedes you, and that it takes a lifetime to build a rep but only an instant to lose it. The more you’re known as a friendly face who’s fair to both sides, the ‘better’ your deals will be and the more frequently people will trade with you.

Usually I only trade with friends but I think I should start to branch out. Did you get my PM Kergillan

HighlyExplosive: Everything is situational. I would always simul-send with someone who has 15-20 references or more, especially if those refs were people I thought highly of.

I think both of your articles are great for new traders and old traders alike. I have made over 250 trades online and enjoyed both articles. Another thing I would like to mention is that traders shouldn't accept Refs from other trading sites unless the person can provide clear cut proof that they are the same person because names can be easily duplicated. The only site other than the one I am on I accept refs from is GAB because they are very reliable.

As you pointed out it is always a good idea to be courteous to other traders. Even if you can't work out a deal is no reason to be rude. Remember next time you look at their list they may have that savage Beatdown you need and they probably will not trade it to you because they remember how you treated them the last time. Nothing bothers me more than someone insulting someone over a deal, even if it is a bad offer. Some people don't know values as well as others but they shouldn't be treated rudely for this reason.

titanfanrob: both EXTREMELY good points - thanks for the input =)

Two very good articles.

I have a few points I would like to add/emphasize (for online trading really).

1) If you do lose your cards to a bad trader be sure to post even if the value was small as it helps out other traders and may halt the bad trader being able to rip others. I can't emphasize enough CHECK THE BAD TRADER POSTS BEFORE YOU TRADE WITH ANYONE use the search function for the name of the trader you are dealing with.

2) If you are a new trader on a site try and build your refs/do your initial trades with experienced (have lots of good refs on the site)traders. They have more to lose (the effort spent building a good ref thread is not thrown away lightly) and are very unlikely to default on any one trade.

3)As a new trader you will likely be sending first do smaller trades initially as the chance of losing your cards is highest at the start. For example, I have encountered on VSRealms (closing in on 200 trades) six bad traders, three were in my first ten trades.

4)Don't be afraid to trade internationally. Often the better deals come from abroad (outside NA) as they (we actually) often have less chance to trade face to face and thus need a wider spectrum of cards. Just be sure to factor in the time and cost of shipping in the process.

5) Make sure you set a final confirmation requirement for the trade such as once addresses are exchanged the trade becomes binding or some such as miscommunication can lead to trading disappointments. Infact, communication is key and can go a long way in solving any problems that might occur during a trade.

5)If you are the one trading down (the one trading the SB "Money Card" for a bunch of cards you need) ask for at least 1.5x the listed/understood value as cards like SB can actually be sold for its value in cash while most of the smaller rares cannot. If this means you make less trades down then that is probably a good thing.

Just my two very worn cents.

Paul

Since Paul is one of the best traders on this site (we've traded a few times between us;) his words are dfinitely worth listening to - thanks Paul!

Paul has a great point about overseas trades. I can't believe all the list I have seen over the years that says" no overseas trades". I can spare an extra buck anyday for a nice deal on some cards. I have made some good online friends from trading overseas.


It is good to see the Moderators and good traders of this site help the new traders with their insights on trading. One thing I think every new trader should watch out for likr Kergillian said is the deal that is too good to be true. If someone with few refs offers you a deal that is greatly in your favor always ask them to Escrow. This is the safest way for new trader that are trading with low ref people. If they say a bunch of reasons that they will not do this then something is wrong. Any honest trader will do this because it really protects both of you. It may cost you a little extra but if it is a big deal it is worth every penny to me.


I would just like to thank you two for the nice insights into trading.

Nothing that I can add that hasnt been covered between Kergy's articles, Paul, Titanfanrob and Kamiza. Good stuff you guys.

Awesome Article Kergillian.

Will this be pinned at the trading forum, or have I already overlooked it?

Kamiza, background checks are fine, but sometimes they are not enough. The current realmer I am trying to get my cards from has plenty of good refs, but that doesn't mean he will continue to be a good trader. I wish we could do something about that issue, but perhaps it's too far-fetched.

As for trading with those with fewer refs, I sort of... disagree. Realmers like myself who post frequently, and have met some of you in person, may not trade as often as others online. I know personally that I only trade (on average) once a month, or when I really need a card. That means my good traders refs are pretty small. Why should I have to wait extra when I am every bit of an equal in this community as the person I am trading with?

Other then that small issue, I think your article was very well written and explained (in detail) what traders need to do to become well respected traders of vsrealms.

Thanks!
-Farchyld

Farchyld: The ref rule exists specifically, like any other seniority system, to honour those who do a lot of trading and have proven time and time again to be responsible and strong traders.

If I have 40 refs and you have 10, you may be as responsible as I, but I have proven it more often. Does that prove I'm more reliable? Well yes and no - someone with 40 refs is LESS LIKELY to cause problems than someone who has 10.

So, for many traders, like myself, we establish a sort of level where we'll ignore the ref rule and simul-send (for me, it's usually one or two successful trades, or 15-20 refs). Others strictly enforce the ref rule, and will ask you to send first every time - as is their right.

Either way, these are the rules ofthe forums, and though you may not specifically agree with them, they exist and if we want to trade here, we have to follow them.

Im not disagreeing with them, im just stating that for some members, it may not be fair. Ive already run into some trades where it never went through, because I felt endangered to send first. Sometimes it's like you're fighting a losing battle.
-Farchyld