first: every Hobby League kit comes with a Shirt for the league's winner.

second: The Ironman and Thor promos your friend told were for real... BUT... those who got those got them for mistake, since those cards were not supposed to be sent... that's why not everyone got them.

[url]http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/op/hobbyleague/Ops_Instructions_12Sept05.pdf[url]

Here is a packing list for the most current UDE prize kit. You'll note that it clearly states "T-Shirt for Tourney Champ".

Personally, I'd move to a different venue.

...Oil :devious:

Do they really put playmats in the first hobby league kits for the new set, becasue the Green Lantern that we recieved did not have one, nor did the Avengers kit.

Was this something they used to do, or what, any info would be much appreciated.

Actually the Thor Playmats were given to those Venues that ordered at least one case of boosters directly from Upper Deck. The Total Anarchy mats were also given out to hobby stores as part of a "Thank You" package. These are the only mats that have been given to retailers thus far.

I must add, I have seen Green Lantern Mats comeout of 2 different venues.

Hello everyone.

I'm the guys who creates, and distributes all of our league programs (if you didn't already know that).

I would like to clear a few things up, and I'd also like to make an open call to players to contact me regarding league issues (whether player-related or store-related).

1st. Play mats are not included in any Hobby League kits (nor have they been). These are part of an incentive or appreciation aspect of product purchase for our direct accounts (these are technically Hobby Gaming accounts, but are often referred to as Tournament Store accounts).

2. It is IMPERATIVE that you communicate all instances of confirmed, or suspected hobby league fraud. I can't possibly take steps to make support better in your regions if you're not willing to take some time and accurately observe and report suspicious behavior.

2a. If you have even the slightest notion that something isn't up to snuff with a particular player, or a particular store, please either PM me at realms, or email me at [email protected].

**Myth Buster**
If you tell me your store is being sneaky, I will NOT automatically cut them off and remove the only bit of store-level OP in your area. What we will do is investigate, talk to the store and players and make an informed decision. The last thing we want to do is shoot ourselves in the foot, and decrease sales of our products by alienating a mis-informed or first-time offending store.

3. Hobby League Licensing.
Stores License Hobby League kits from UDE. They are bound by the terms of the Licensing Agreement, which specifically states that league locations absolutely may NOT sell league materiasl for profit. If this is happening in your local store, they are violating the agreement. This is regardless of whether they put cards in the display case or binders, or sell them on eBay. This also includes t-shirts.

3a. If you buy EA cards from eBay, you may be unwittingly feeding the market for stores to sell league materials. Be dilligent in this. Contact the sellers and try to ascertain whether they are an actual store. Don't buy EAs from sellers who you even suspect are based at a hobby store. Be incredibly wary of sellers who have unopened cello-wrapped packs of Hobby League cards (no one is suppsed to win all 8 of a certain prize card).

**eBay Fraud Specifically**
If any of you even suspect (but especially if you know for sure) that a seller is linked to a Hobby League location, please please, send me an email with that auction info.
Even better, if you could help to verify that a seller is actually a store (you know them personally, or you've purchased from them in the past) we move light years towards eliminating the problem.

**A note on evidence**
Actual proof of misadventure is priceless. For example: you find a store selling Hobby League EAs. BUY ONE!!! Get a receipt with store info on it. OR You win an auction for Hobby League EAs and part of the invoice or receipt has store information on it.
If I have physical evidence of any Fraud, it's an open and shut case, end of story.

One of the things that bothers me the most, that I would DIE to put an end to, is store "helpers." Players or Judges that are somehow linked to a store or league. These folks end up with multiple EAs in their personal collections, while the actual league participants are left with nothing. What we'll do in these situations is hold the store accountable for this infraction, as well as the individual "helper." These folks will see absolutely no end to my wrath if we can discover who they are adn how they link to the store.

It's very important for you all to understand that telling me once that something is wrong and expecting things to change overnight without any further incident, is very unreasonable. You all must be willing to be active participants in a multi-step and relatively slow-moving investigation.
--I can't tell you the number of times someone has anonymously told me something's wrong and then refuses to get involved, or to try to get others involved. What's left is me calling the store, asking about the issues, them telling me No, everything's fine, we don't do that, and then the accuser doesn't respond or offer any further assistance for fear of repraisal. This leaves me no alternative but to believe the store and drop the issue.

If something is wrong, you must get other players to come forward and tell me what's going on. If I have 4 people who all have the same story about a store, i don't have to take the store's word for anything. In this situation I can take steps to regulate and change what's happening.

I could go on for pages and pages, and I know I'm starting to ramble. The bottom line is, if you don't tell me personally and cooperate with the ensuing investigation, I can do nothing to help the situation.

In conclusion:
Tell me what's happening.
Keep it to the facts only.
Be willing to follow-up and particpate.
Continue to be an advocate for fair play regardless of the outcome.

And, most importantly, don't be afraid to do the right thing. Your fellow players, and this whole game is dependant on your willingness to participate at all levels.

Be good, be strong, and remember, we're on your side.

Best Regards to this whole amazing community - we can't do any of it without you!

I'm happy to see you onto this Andy, it gives me more faith that UDE is looking out for us. Out HL is run just fine (we even get an extra kit to make sure everyone gets something), but I don't like hearing people getting shafted.

Now if only you guys could recall this month's cards and give us GOOD ones ;)

i've emailed before about a store that was selling them on ebay, no reply and nothing done about it.

(i'm talking about the store apprecation mats) with these mats, what exactly were they for, i'm guessing for the players that play VS, am i right?

Just getting our store to have a Hobby League is hard enough form UDE. We have easily 20+ players every week at our store and yet somehow the owner keeps getting the runaround on getting a Hobby League.

I know of one store in Seattle that sold an entire HL kit to someone local. All of it. For like $80.

I think each store shoudl have to turn in their HL score cards each month, sort of like a reciept, to continue with the program. If they are missing for 2 months, the invesitagtion begins. And if every player has a UDE number, then you can follow up very easily and check up on them.

It sucks to have to even think about this. The HL kits, and even the PCQs and tourneys, are there to support the community. By the wayside they also generate traffic into a store and thus normally promote product sales. But every tiem i turn around, the TO or the HL operator wants to make a direct profit off of that event or kit.

We can't even get a regular HL in Spokane, and we can draw 12 to 18 players on a single day soemtimes. More than enough for a HL or some other tourney support. But we seem to be in a vaccuum here. One store who was running HL stopped because they thought that us playing in a free structure prevented us form paying to enter a paid tournament. They had 4 or 6 peoople in playing hobby league some nights, and the person runnign it thought since they weren't [paying $5 a night for a tourney and getting a pack, it was a waste fo the stores time.

I think part of this coudl also be resolved if UDE could (like many other companies do) provide each tourney store with a prize pack each month to support their tourneys. I am considering asking my local store to get the HL kits and then use them as actual tourney prize support kits throughout the month, and not use the normal score tracking method for how to give the prizes out. Each tourney woudl get extended arts for their top 4 prizes on top of the store prizes... and anyone who pays into a tourney on the month gets a scratch card while supplies last.

But i don't know if that violates the letter of the law with the kits so i am not attemtping it yet. I think a structure like that is more likely to succeed in a lot of these areas, unless the kits (or something) were made free to the stores to prompt them to host events.

But please require a UDE number to be listed for each prize given so we can track and stop most of the fraud.

Also... sticky this post for future reference. I think this is great info for everyone to have to fall back on. Thanks Andy.

So you're not allowed to charge for Hobby League tournaments? For instance having a weekly tournament with an entrance fee and the prizes are HL cards?

Hi guys

It's me again.

Couple more things to clear up.

This is copied from the Hobby League Operating Instructions included in each kit (this is available for viewing or download by the public at www.ude.com/hobbyleague ).

*************************************
League Overview
• Each league kit supports 25 players for one month.
• Stores should operate at least one league session per week or four league sessions per month.
• Hobby League is intended as a month-long, cumulative league, giving prizes at the end of the month. A Player Data Record is provided to track wins and losses throughout the month.
• You may run Hobby League as a series of weekly events, awarding prizes at the end of each weekly session. If you are a certified UDE Tournament Organizer, you may sanction these weekly Hobby League events, but must follow the official UDE Tournament Policy and Vs. System Policy documents which can be found at www.ude.com/policy. The online Tournament Organizer test can be found at www.ude.com/judge.
• If you choose to run month-long, cumulative leagues, prizes should be awarded as follows: 1st & 2nd place should receive 4 cards of their choice. 3rd & 4th place choose from what’s left over after 1st & 2nd make their choices. Participation cards should be given out to everyone as directed.
**************************************

This addresses some of your queries about how the league can be run.

Also to note:
We encourage stores (when/if they ask) to charge a nominal fee for HL events, *as long as they are responsible in what they charge.*
$1 for a constructed HL event with no additional prizes would be more than acceptable.
$5 for a constructed HL with a few additional booster packs is perfect.
Charging Product *cost* for Sealed format HL events is right on the money.

Every Hobby League location spends at least $20/month to support Vs. in their store. It's very reasonable to assume that each store will try and recoup that amount.

We do not support or condone excessive gouging, but we don't have to police that as you, the players will likely decide to abstain from a store trying to milk you dry.

IF there is a situation where you're stuck with nowhere else to play, and excessive entry fees, drop us a line and we'll see if there's something that we can do. HOWEVER, don't get your hopes up. Most stores do not like being told what they can and can't do, and honestly, they can gouge if they honestly want to gouge. We can only try to explain the detrimental effect that usually has on a local player-base.

To conclude. I've received several email regarding theses topics, and I thank you for taking the time to write in. A few of you have noted that you -have- tried to contact us (or me) to little or no effect. To that I say: I'm sorry. We have a ton of emails, and (as you all know) a ton of inboxes that need tending. I apologize if anyone feels overlooked, although that's usually not the case. For those who've had this experience, please take a few minutes to re-type your request or query and send it to one of the following where appropriate, and give us another chance to address your individual concerns...please.

For Rules and Game Play questions please email [email protected]
For MANTIS, sanctioning, or back-end, event-related issues, please contact [email protected]
For Tourney Results, Ratings, Pro Circuit (including PCC) or other Premier-level event questions, please contact [email protected]
For Judge-related issues (including test results or queries), please email [email protected]
For general product, program, or customer service-related issues, please email [email protected] with a detailed subject line so we can route your message appropriately.
For all UDE League-related issues (hobby and mass market) please email [email protected]

Thanks again folks.
And as always, thanks for your support of our Organized Play programs and products.

Best-

I have a similar problem. Our shop gets all the promo/league kit stuff in - then does nothing but keep it. Already the shop has lost the right to run prereleases due to the unfortunate abuse of this privilege.

How do we deal with this kind of crap? We're the ones paying UDE and supporting the game and yet we're the ones that loose out? Meanwhile boxes of league kits sit in the back room doing nothing!