I mentioned this a while ago but I wanted to get other players' opinions.

Should there be higher prize support for $10ks that are scheduled during comic or gaming conventions? Because there is the additional expense for the convention badge and most players won't really have time to actually visit the convention, shouldn't the payout be a bit better? And if they really want to attract some of the con attendees, wouldn't a little more juice help to lure them away from the reason they are attending the con in the first place?

I've heard some rumblings about the DragonCon $10k at the end of last year and there are worries about the upcoming Wizard World LA $10k this March. In order to alleviate some concerns, the entry price for the VS events have been lowered and a participation EA will be given to all $10k entrants for the WWLA $10k. But is that enough?

I know some pro players don't mind paying the extra $25-$50 for the con badge but I feel that it makes it harder for new players to justify the expense. Especially because the con badge basically has to be useless (in other words... if you have time to visit the con... you are probably not winning the $10k). Would higher prize payouts be worth it?

If UDE ever decides to make a middle tier event between the $10ks and the PC... the conventions tournaments would probably be the best place to start. Wizard Worlds, Origins, ComicCon and DragonCon are all spaced out far enough.

What do you guys think?

more money is never a bad thing

what he said.

i am down with that. since it is at a bigger event. y not make the winnings bigger

10 times as much isn't enough?


The people that win the tourny shouldn't get more, they are already getting enough.


But what erick said about not being able to see the convention, I completely agree with. I went to WW Chicago and didn't get to look around for pretty much an entire day (until after I lost...a lot). I think the least they could do is only charge players for two days and give them a three day pass or something like that.

You have to pay $25 to get in, so UDE owes us fifteen thousand dollars.

Yes, yes... it all makes sense now!

to play devil's(or at least TO's) advocate you realizet that the cost of running the event is the same regardless of where it is, and that by lowering the entrance fee you are just picking the pocket of the TO and by proxy the judges and staff for the event. Having a special EA is nice and all, but what about when people start complaining because they don't get a promo just because their 10K isn't at a con? And they will...you know they will.

As a player/judge I think of the con entry fee as just aditional cost for the event, if I didn't want to pay the total cost then either I go to a 10K that isn't at the evnet, or I get the three day pass, go on friday for the con and saturday is the 10K then see what happens for sunday. I guess that it shouldn't be a suprise to people who participate in these events that its going to cost a little more to play, and if they can't cover the cost then hit up a different event. You can't please everyone, nor should you really try.

At WW Chicago me and my friends actually went to the UDE space of WW and asked for either product or a refund for having to buy a 3 day pass. Unfortunatly we got neither because they packed up all the product. :( I did get to call Steve-Dave from mallrats a ###### sunday afternoon though. Highlight of 10k Chicago for me.

It only costs $10 to enter a 10k at a Con anyway as opposed to $30.

Personally I haven't hit a convention aside from Gen Con (obviously for the PCs) in a few years and this is mainly cause the $10k tournaments are just not a big enough draw. If I want to travel to a $10k it wouldn't be at a con due to many negatives (hard to get a hotel, con badge, crowds, etc.). So if you wanted to draw people like me back to conventions to play VS you'd need to up the value a bit.

On the other hand I don't think increasing the prizes is gonna make it more newb friendly. More prizes = more pros showing up = even less of a chance for the newb to get any of the money. I'd say the best thing you could do is not charge an entry fee and give out some special card only available at that event (along the lines of the PC only cards).

While I'd love more money, the cost of entry for the event and the prize money really aren't related. It's obvious that UDE isn't making anywhere close to $10,000 (or $13, 800) running the tournament, no matter what they charge at the door.

Players are being spoiled by 10ks that aren't run at cons. Even for a 200-man tournament at a con, UDE isn't making their money back--but that's not the point. The point is the advertising, not to make the tournament a profitable venture.

So the question is, is public perception of tournaments at cons worth $15,000? I think the answer's going to be no. So while I'd love to see more prizes just like anyone else, I can't see UDE doubling their cost just so a few players are less upset about entry fees.

No... the cost of entry and the prize payout are not related. But EvilBaby is correct that the cost of entry is what the PTO running the event uses to cover expenses.

However... if the event does not draw enough players due to barriers such as having to buy a badge, lower availability/higher cost of hotels due to convention, etc etc... then it makes it hard to cover said expenses.

So how does a PTO deal with this? Does he not offer a discount and just have lower numbers? Does he try to give people more incentives (ie EAs) to show up? Or... would it be better if the event had more prizing to add some value to that badge the players have to purchase just to play?

And I wasn't trying to make it easier for "newbs to get any money"... just to make it more enticing so new players will give it a shot and more pros will show up. In the end, it's about getting more people to play VS and we should do as much as possible to encourage that (like letting PCQ PC points pass down... but that's another thread for another day).

What would be great is if cons like WW and the like would let the TOs schedule events at the same convention center just not in actual Convention area. In Chicago there is plenty of space in the Convention Center to have the event close to WW and keep a division between people just there for the 10K and people there for the Con. Unfortunatly the Con people don't seem to want to budge on the issue. I know of few TOs that have been fighting for something like that since the 10Ks at cons started.

Yep... EvilBaby knows the situation. And since it can't be changed right now... what other options could there be?

The problem with the 10K system is there is no incentive to go. Once again we have to use the Magic model when talking about pro level CCG play with large cash prizes.

In magic a 10K is called a grand prix. It gives out $15,00 I think. They used to be $10,000 but upped it recently because of VS.

NOw there are 2 really big reasons for both pro's to go to a Grand prix. First off if you are a pro you get round byes based on your rating. The top level gets 3 byes. Which means you enter the event 3-0 right off the bat, thus increasing your chance of top 8ing the event. THis is good for pro's because you increase your chance's of hitting the cash.

The other draw is that the top 10 people get to be invited to the pro tour, and there are amature cahs prizes handed out, and a ton of product. The Qual is the big thing though.

VS on the other hand has no byes. In addition the pro point system that VS uses makes the top 10 invites a lot leess meaningful. The fact that in Magic you need to come in 1st place at a PTQ to get on the tour is a big deal. In VS you can come in second in 2 PCQ's and get your qual.

While I like this system, it makes the 10 points you get for making top 10 a lot less important.

Here is what I think needs to happen. we need a masters leauge or pro player of the year race. Magic has a similar system. What this does is pays the players with the hihest amount of erned Pro points at the end of the year. THis would encourage more pros to go to the 10K's to try and get a piece of the pie at the end of the year.

FOr the Amatures they need to redefine the term "amature". Since it is fairly easy to get a pro point they need to define the term a bit better. I would say it is anyone who has not attended a pro curcuit event or made top 8 in a 10K in the last 2 years. Then create a new prize bracket for people that meet that definition. It would get prizes deeper into the people who are fairly new to the game or trying to break into the pro level of play.

If they did this, I would definatly make an effort to get to 10K events.