so here's the situtation, i'm playing in the top eight of a tournament. i've won my first game and have started game two with a terrible draw. my opponent's draw is also bad, but in this situation he is favored because, while we are both playing control decks, i am forced to take the roll of the beatdown player. the later i get in the game with him above 25 endurance, the more likely i am to lose.

we finally get to turn six, with me having only done around 15 points of endurence loss. it's his inititive and he under-drops sage, using her ability immediately. he fails to find anything, forms up and passes to me. i recruit my six drop and form up as well. attacks are made and the turn is drawing to a close when he announces that he is going to use sage's ability. the table judge sorta shakes his head in agreement and the reporter of the match does the same. it's at this point that i realize i have a decision to make: point out that he has already used sage this turn or let him draw, then "realize" that he has already used her ability. the first option lets us continue the match without incident, while the secound option in all likelyhood gives my opponent a game loss and me the match win. my natural inclination was to point out the illegal play and we moved on to the next turn. i end up loseing the match.

my question is, should i have let him draw the extra cards? would i have cheated by letting him?

You did the right thing. The fact that your first instinct was to point it out shows that it would have bugged you if you had let it go through to get the win.

As to whether its cheating I would say no but it is morally wrong.

There is of course the question of whether you believe it was a genuine mistake on the part of your opponent or an attempt to cheat. He/She gained a lot of legitimacy by declaring the action and waiting long enough to give both the judge and reporter time to complain.

From a utilitarian PoV, the question to ask yourself is, "Are the odds of getting caught entrapping him and the punishment for doing so greater than the reward for not being caught and potentially forcing out a game loss on him?"

My take on the matter, though, is that you knew he was not able to activate Sage's ability again. Therefore, it's your duty as a player to inform him of that before he attempts to resolve it. If you didn't know, and caught him on it later, his loss would be acceptable because of the rules, but ethically speaking, you'd be doing a great disservice to the integrity of the game state by attempting to 'trap' your opponent into a game loss. Being on the other end of it, I'm sure you'd much prefer an opponent catch you before you make a dumb mistake on an illegal play than to let an opponent essentially steal a win by bringing up the problem later, rather than sooner.

In the end, the choice is one of priorities. Would you rather strive for personal gain (since this isn't giving you a true victory, so much as a win by default), or the fairness of the game as a whole? Nobody ever said the moral choice was easy. ^_^

My guess is if your opponent discarded a card to use Sage's power, the judge would have stopped him before the draw, put the card back into his hand and given him a warning. I doubt that judges are in the habit of laying traps. Prevention is still the best cure.

you are a sore loser

-jk, you made the right decision

I have faced a similar situation too, but mine was slightly different. Anyway, I did the same as you. Although I won the match in the end, I still felt that I "let-him-off to easily".

He mis-read Captain Marvel's effect and KO him from the resource row and make a guy +4 attack, he then replace the resource and look at it, it happens that the card was a tutor and he started searching. I was actually quite stunned when I saw him replacing the resource and inform the judge. I told the judge that I spotted him looking at the extra card and he got a warning. He placed back the card he tutored

I am still wondering what would happen if I told the judge that he also shuffled the deck and look for a card and so on. Would I have gotten an easy victory out of it? I didn't as I know I was on the verge on winning when I can recruit my 7 drop and he cannot.

Fine, except that this doesn't appear to have been a case of the Judge laying a trap!

It appears the Judge didn't remember that the player had already used Sage that turn, and therefore wouldn't have stopped them at any point.

Later on if the Judge had remembered/been told, it is entirely possible that he/she would have issued a warning rather than a game loss as he/she allowed the play in the first place. The sad part is that it is possible that the opponent was testing the water by announcing the action and waiting for responses to see if anyone did remember them already using Sage.

Since you asked if you should have "cheated", it's obvious that you know it wasn't right. Well done on doing the right thing.

I have made a habit of sticking a dice on Sage when she gets used, so that we can remember.

One of my opponents at Saturday's 10K played Polaris, then started riffling through the top four cards of his deck. He was using Scanner's ability, but had no Scanner in play. Not knowing exactly what to do, I called over a judge and we all agreed it was a misplay. He got a warning and was told to shuffle his deck (negating any advantage given by Scanner's ability). I thought he was trying to play the game too fast and was stumbling over his own cards. At least calling a judge slowed him down.

I really didn't want to get him DQed or cause hard feelings, but I've let a lot of misplays go before and lost games. I still lost that game and was left with a very uneasy feeling.

And I don't see his name in the top 8 :/

Niles is a quality human being, all the way to his core. I was there, I saw him wrestle with this. There really was no decision to make. He is a good person, and it wouldn't be him if he would have made the slimy choice.

If that was the case, he wouldn't have even asked the question in the first place. The thing I don't understand, is that everyone is applauding him for making the right decision even though it really should have been the only decision. He was actually mulling over whether he should abuse the system to his advantage in order for his opponent to get a match loss. How is it that nobody has pointed that out yet? Canamrock kind of hit on it but the truth of the matter is, IT'S WRONG.

So Bravo, you made the ethically correct choice even though it should have been blatantly obvious what you should have done from the get go and you don't need a forum full of players to tell you that.

If I was a judge (and I'm most certainly not) and you called me over right after your opponent used Sage (giving you proper time to tell him it's not legal) and told me you suddenly now remember he used Sage before I'd give you both warnings and tell you to keep playing.

Man... Dalton should join the judge program.

BOTH players are responsible for the gamestate. One of the reasons is to prevent entrapment issues as mentioned by other posters.

So sorry Niles... you would have lost either way.

Yep. Both players are responsible for that sort of thing. Especially with a judge standing right there the whole time conveniently remembering after it happened would not have resulted in a game loss. At best would have been a warning to just the offending player more likely a warning to both.




That doesn't make him slimy it makes him human. I consider myself a good sport but in that situation I'd be lying if I say I wouldn't have been tempted. A lot of people would have had that moment where they consider it. Most people (myself included) would in fact do the right thing. I'm not here to praise Niles - but to say that he's scum for even thinking it, that's a bit of a moral high horse you're riding. The real scum wouldn't think twice about going for a game loss. They'd go for it automatically.

That should have been your entire post. He wanted to talk about an intense situation, and you jump him for it? Weak.