Hello again all -

I "judge" at our local FLGS, and have been playing Heroclix since the release of the original game. I usually enjoy judging, and I love playing. However, at tonight's tournament there was something of an extremely "animated discussion" between two of the players, which involved Red Onslaught and the pog made by it, and Venom Common Prime, and the issue of Incapacitating 0 point pogs.

The player who did not have pogs carried out an action which would "incapacitate" 2 of the opponent's pogs, which already had action tokens. The player running Red Onslaught argued that as the pogs were not standard characters - and were pogs, not bystanders, - they would NOT take the incapacitate token. I ruled that they WOULD take the incapacitate token, and would thus be ko'd. They were adamant that I was wrong "because of the ruling on 0 point generated pogs not being bystanders" - but, as I was judging, they agreed to go with the ruling.

Was I wrong ? I don't believe I was , and, if I was, it's not an issue I've encountered before, which I'm pretty sure I would have done. - AND, also, is anyone aware of what ruling they were (possibly wrongly) referring to ?

It was a stressful evening all round, but I would very much like to know if I was right, and if not, why not. Oh, and can someone remind me why I'm doing this again ?

LoL

All the Best

- a somewhat stressed out and saddened -

Noman

There is no in-game term such as "pogs."

From 2018 rule book:

A bystander is a character that has combat values, but does not have a combat dial and does not “click”. A bystander can’t be healed and, if it takes any damage, it is KO’d. Most bystanders are “generated” bystanders, but some bystanders are separate game elements (with point values) that may be added to your starting force normally.
Bystanders may be:
• Flat tokens that have combat values printed on them.
• 3-D sculpts on a small base without a dial with combat values printed on the base.
• A “generated” bystander listed on a game element’s card that specifies its combat values.
These can be represented by any small object.

Of important note is the third bullet point.

If they want to play with pogs, I'm quite sure they can find a lot on ebay and some slammers to play 'til their hearts' content.

Also, when there is a statement about "There's a rule that says. . . ." or "There's an errata about this figure. . ." step one is to stop them in their tracks and say, "Show me this ruling/errata. Tell me what context this was made in. Was it a figure on the WizKids Rules Forums? Which one? How long ago?"

In short, no evidence, no ruling. Too many folks try to make stuff up to suit their purposes so they can win the game, and too many folks Mandela Effect rules to be what they want them to be but not what they truly are.

Agreed.

Walk through the rules forum and see how many questions and answers are based off a vague (mis)understanding of some unrelated point.

Honestly, 95% of disagreements can be boiled down to "WizKids always changes the rules so X must have been changed". Players see changes that don't exist.

We have a bit in common I see.
I don't want to be the judge, but enjoy it as much as I can.
Because I like playing.
In 10 years no one has stepped up to take this away from me. So maybe I can remind you why you are doing it. It may be that like me, if you don't judge, no one else will. So if I don't do it, we don't have the tournament I organize. So I do it in order to keep the venue going so that I will have a place to play. (Yes, I am the hated creature, the Dredd Judge who also plays in his events).
If you look at a thread I started just before this one, about a Star Trek map, you will see that I had a very similar situation. It was a bit stressful, but fortunately, it was one of the 4 times I haven't been the judge at our venue over the last decade.

(Special) Sentinels: FREE: If an opponent's force has more characters than your force does, generate a Sentinel BYSTANDER [MAX 3] at 600 points; [MAX 2] at 300 points; [MAX 1] at 150 points.

I don't know how that could have been clearer.

Editing to add an actually useful datum: Bystanders are not considered standard characters. Your boy was right on that score. But that doesn't make them immune to Incap or pushing damage. I can't find any ruling online that could possibly be interpreted that way.

Editing again : checking my own Red Onslaught card, the Sentinel bystanders DO have Indomitable. Is that relevant or were they already double-tokened?

Thanks for that, everyone.

Much appreciated,

LoL

All the Best,

Noman