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Okay, here's a good question. I'm pretty sure that after reading the text of these two feats that a Camouflage equipped figure can't be targeted with Trick Shot. But what about someone standing behind the Camouflage figure?
Say
TS
0
0
C
H
Where
TS is a Trick Shooter
0 is open terrain
C is the figure with Camouflage (assuming he's next to blocking terrain)
H is a henchman hiding behind the Camouflage figure.
So can TS target H?
I ask because Camo reads "line of fire... drawn to the character is blocked" while TS reads "ignores characters and hindering terrain for line of fire purposes"
I would guess that you can't target the Camouflage figure, but you can target anyone behind them... but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.
For Referance:
Camouflage 8 points
Sets:Sinister
Prerequisite: Shape Change
Choose a character. When the character is adjacent to a wall or blocking terrain, any line of fire for a ranged combat attack drawn to the character is blocked.
Trick Shot 20 points
Sets:Mutant Mayhem, Legacy
Prerequisites: Plasticity or Ranged Combat Expert
Choose a character. When making an attack from a square that is not adjacent to an opposing character, this character ignores Stealth and team abilities that duplicate the effects of Stealth and it ignores characters and hindering terrain for line of fire purposes.
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As you say, Camouflage (and Stealth and similar effects) only activate when line of fire is drawn to that character. Normally, character bases also block line of fire, but if you have some way of ignoring it (Trick Shot, Camouflage, or simply being on elevated terrain), you can draw line of fire through the Stealthed/Camouflaged character's square without any difficulty.
So TS could shoot the camouflage if he wanted to ?
No. The question was not asking if he could shoot the character with Camo, but if he could shoot the character behind the Camo'd character.
Since Camo only activates when LOF is draw to the character, LOF through the character is unaffected (assuming you've got someway to draw LOF through character's in the first place).
Quote
SO basically Camouflage can be out done by using trickshot, ultimates or superman ally ?
No. That feat and those TAs ignore hindering terrain (and characters, in Trick Shot's case); Camo has absolutely nothing to do with hindering terrain.
For all intents and purposes Camouflage is a variant on Stealth. Under normal circumstances a fig in Stealth would still block LoF to figs behind them even though they themselves cannot be targeted. That's because any LoF drawn through a character is still drawn to that character. Trick Shot allows the shooter to ignore Stealth only because it ignores the effects of hindering terrain. Since Camouflage doesn't use hindering terrain to conceal the fig LoF is still blocked.
For all intents and purposes Camouflage is a variant on Stealth.
No, it isn't. They net effect is similiar (blocking LoF to the figure in question) but that is all they have in common. If it was a variant of Stealth, then a figure with TS would be able to target the Camo figure since TS ignores Steath:
Quote : Originally Posted by Trick Shot
Prerequisites: Plasticity or Ranged Combat Expert
Choose a character. When making an attack from a square that is not adjacent to an opposing character, this character ignores Stealth and team abilities that duplicate the effects of Stealth and it ignores characters and hindering terrain for line of fire purposes.
Camo does not equal Stealth
Quote : Originally Posted by dariusq
Under normal circumstances a fig in Stealth would still block LoF to figs behind them even though they themselves cannot be targeted.
So would any other figure though...
Quote : Originally Posted by dariusq
That's because any LoF drawn through a character is still drawn to that character.
No, that's because the rulebook says figures block LoF. The figure's Stealth really makes no difference to the figures behind it. Aside from keeping it from getting blasted out of the way.
Quote : Originally Posted by dariusq
Trick Shot allows the shooter to ignore Stealth only because it ignores the effects of hindering terrain..
See the text of TS above.
Quote : Originally Posted by dariusq
Since Camouflage doesn't use hindering terrain to conceal the fig LoF is still blocked.
When using TS (or similiar effects) to target the camo figure yes. However, it does nothing to prevent the TSer from targeting any figures behind it, since it ignores figures for LoF purposes. Again, see the text for TS.
BoT
I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries....now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
So I could TS a character behind a camoed fig attack that character with energy explosion to deal damage to the camoed fig?
If they are adjacent, yes. EE Splash doesn't target.
BoT
I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries....now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
If camouflage is giving you a problem just outwit the shape change, it does not create blocking for line of sight or pulse wave will tear through feats and powers.
Last edited by sick_boy; 11/13/2007 at 00:54..
When there is no more room in hell the dead will walk the earth.
They net effect is similiar (blocking LoF to the figure in question) but that is all they have in common. If it was a variant of Stealth, then a figure with TS would be able to target the Camo figure since TS ignores Steath:
Camo does not equal Stealth
I never said that Camouflage=Stealth, I compared Camouflage to being a variant of Stealth. That is, they accomplish a similar effect but by different means.
Going over your argument though I do see your point and now concur that Trick Shot could in fact target a fig behind a Camouflaged character.