First off, the "If this has been addressed before, please excuse," clause...

I'm a bit confused about wild cards and ata's.

I read in a recent thread that a WC using the Green Lantern ata could benefit from it's AV bonus, but could not contribute to it due to the wording.

"Prerequisite: Green Lantern Corps TA

All characters with the Green Lantern Corps team ability have the following team ability instead of the Green Lantern Corps team ability:

When a character with this team ability makes an attack against a target character, you can modify the character's attack value by +1 for each friendly character with the Green Lantern Corps team symbol that has attacked the target this turn."

Ok, so the feat specfies that a character has to have the symbol to contribute to the attack bonus.


Well, I was under the impression that when a "team symbol" was part of the prerequisite, that wild cards couldn't use them b/c they had "WC team symbol" and the actual team symbol required.

How can they get by for the prerequisite but not for the wording of the feat?

They effectively have a TA to qualify, but don't possess the team symbol for the specific GL ata wording?

I thought that the team symbol prerequisite was notably different to say, FF ata which simply has the prerequisite: "Fantastic Four team ability" which WC's possess w/o ever having the symbol.

Is the key to be on the lookout for the text "team symbol" in the ata feat description?

Any and all clarifications would be most welcome.

Or if i'm just clearly a dingus, you can just point me to the proper thread where this has been covered a 1/2 dozen times and I'll gladly close my thread and move on with life.

Thanks.

The prerequistes are met... by the actual GL(s) on the team.

Then, once the game has started and the new TA reads whatever it reads, the Wildcard simply copies the new TA description.

They aren't assigned the feat in anyway, shape, or form. They are simply doing what wildcards do: copy team abilities.

They only thing preventing a wildcard from copying a TA (normal or feat-granted) is if the TA description specifically says that it can't be copied. Off the top of my head, the only ATA with that stipulation is Squadron Supreme (though I am sure someone will chime in if I am wrong).

I just had an "Ahhhhhh" moment.

The prerequisite for GL ata says "GL symbol".

This means, just one person on your team needs "GL team symbol" to use it on your team.

Then the first line reads, "All characters with the Green Lantern Corps team ability have the following team ability instead of the Green Lantern Corps team ability:"

which means wild cards now qualify, since they possess the team ability (though not the symbol).

This means you need a GL symbol on your force to meet the prerequisite; that a character Thunderbolted to GL couldn't help you make the prerequisite, as opposed to say, the FF ata prerequisite.

I seee.

doh, i mean thanks!

you answered before i posted.

Eh, not quite.

First, the wildcards never posses any TA but their own wildcard TA. They can use other TAs, thanks to that wildcard TA they possess, but 'use' and 'possess' have two completely different definitions in Heroclix.

From the LoSH Glossary:

possess: To directly have a power, ability, or effect printed on a card or dial—not simply used via another power, ability, or effect.

use: To employ a power, ability, or effect.

Second, with regards to your T-bolts analysis, the Marvel E&C specifies that you can not T-bolt any team ability granted by a feat. If Hawkeye T-bolts FF, he's got the original FF TA even if his friend Sue Storm is packing the ATA. Same goes for ATA GL and all the rest.

Hope this helps.

thanks for the errata and use/possess differentiation.

I just figured under the old ata wording, a t-bolted hawkeye could've been the only member on the team w/ say, ff ta, and therefore filled the requirement for ff ata. The rest of team could then WC away.

but it's errata'd anyhow.

sweet.

So a rule of thumb might be that in order to use an ata, at least one member of your team must posess the TA on their dial.

With that, any WC members of your team can copy and use the new ata.

In this way, Nightwing could, let's suppose, use a Titans or Outsiders ata while he posseses his movement special power, since it specifies that not only can he use those two TA's, but he's considered to posess them on his dial while he has this special power.

SR Spectre, on the other hand, can only use JSA TA, almost as if he were a WC copying the TA.

This is why feats w/ power prerequisites don't work w/ special powers that use combinations of standard powers, right? If a special power stated that a character was considered to posess a combination of standard powers as if they were printed on the dial, instead of just use them, those standard powers in the special could then be used to fulfill prerequisites.

Correct.

Assuming it isn't like Squadron Supreme (with the 'no wildcarding' clause), then yes.

Unless there is some errata for Nightwing I am unaware of, you are correct... except there aren't any ATAs for Batman, Titans, or Outsiders yet, so the point is moot

Correct.

Correct. That 'use' versus 'possess' wording is the key.

Thanks! Crystal clear!

Goin out on a limb here, but if WK doesn't already pay you to do this, normal, they should.

Other Team Abilities that cannot be copied.

Power Cosmic/Quintessence

CSA

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Also Saboteur doesn't QUITE prevent you from copying Team Abilities, but it does screw with what can and can't be copied.

Outsiders can't be copied either.