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Takedown and AA Robin

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10/31/2008, 12:11

Torpedo Vegas

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Takedown and AA Robin

Attack - Tear Gas Grenade: Robin can use Smoke Cloud. When Robin uses Smoke Cloud, after he places all hindering terrain markers he can immediately use Incapacitate as a free action but can attack only a single opposing character occupying a square containing a hindering terrain marker he placed that turn; ignore the effects of hindering terrain on the attack.

Does AA Robin meet the prerequisites for take down? Im thinking not since he has Smoke Cloud and that is what lets him use Incapacitate but i just want to be sure

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10/31/2008, 12:19

AndarPul

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You can assign the feat to him, but it's not going to do him any good. Takedown occurs on your opponent's turn, and Robin can only use Incap when he uses Smoke Cloud on his own turn.

10/31/2008, 12:19

malger

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Being able to use Incapacitate should allow him to use Takedown.

10/31/2008, 12:32

MattPetersen

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He still has a form of Incapacitate so I think he would qualify for the feat.

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10/31/2008, 12:39

Harpua

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AndarPaul is correct.

He meets the prerequisite in order to be assigned the feat.

In order to actually use the feat, though, he needs to meet the prerequisite at the time it would be used.

When attacked, he would not meet the prerequisite, so the card would not be active.

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10/31/2008, 12:43

malger

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Quote : Originally Posted by AndarPul

You can assign the feat to him, but it's not going to do him any good. Takedown occurs on your opponent's turn, and Robin can only use Incap when he uses Smoke Cloud on his own turn.

I'm not sure that makes a difference since the use of Incapacitate is always confined to the character's own turn.

10/31/2008, 12:51

anonym0use

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It's odd, because not only is Incap confined to Robin's turn, it is also confined to Smoke CLoud. Robin can't just incap - he has to use Smoke CLoud to get there.

From this thread: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...=247705&page=3

Quote : Originally Posted by anonym0use

Thanks for trying to help. The part I'm trying to suss out is this.

Robin uses Incap as part of Smoke Cloud. The power doesn't say "Robin can use Incapacitate and Smoke Cloud, and then say "when Robin uses Smoke Cloud he can Incap for free...yadda yadda."

In short, Tim can't incap willy nilly, he must be given an action to use the Smoke Cloud.

Now, Two Face can use Incap, but only on his turn. You could assign Takedown to Two Face, because he uses the power, but because Incap's never active during his turn, Takedown would never come into play.

I'm thinking it's the same with the boy wonder - he could use Takedown WHEN SMoke CLoud was active. On the 2/3 turns when he wasn't using Smoke Cloud, Takedown would not apply.

Does my logic seem clear?

When Robin uses Smoke Cloud, after he places all hindering terrain markers he can immediately use Incapacitate as a free action but can attack only a single opposing character occupying a square containing a hindering terrain marker he placed that turn; ignore the effects of hindering terrain on the attack.

Quote : Originally Posted by AndarPul

It's an extension of the ruling on how Brialliant Tactician interacts with characters that have limitations on their use of Perplex. In effect, that ruling said that the character's limitation on using Perplex carries over to all targets Perplexed using Brillinat Tactician.

Here you have limitations on the use of Incap (involving timing) that essentially limit the use of Incap to other actions taken during your turn. As they do have use of Incap, they can be assigned Incap prereq Feats. However, Takedown is an effect that occurs on your opponent's turn, at a time which you do not have use of Incap, and so you cannot use it as you don't qualify for the prereq at the time you need the prereq to use the feat. Whew. So you can assign the Feat at build time, but you cannot use the Feat during the battle, due to the limitations placed upon that character's use of Incap.

AN official ruling would be nice.

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10/31/2008, 13:00

AndarPul

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Quote : Originally Posted by malger

I'm not sure that makes a difference since the use of Incapacitate is always confined to the character's own turn.

True, but normally you always possess or have use of a power, and that is not the case here.

From Tear Gas Grenade:
When Robin uses Smoke Cloud, after he places all hindering terrain markers he can immediately use Incapacitate as a free action but can attack only a single opposing character occupying a square containing a hindering terrain marker he placed that turn; ignore the effects of hindering terrain on the attack.

Note the 'When Robin uses Smoke Cloud' limitation placed on when Robin can use Incap. He does not have use of Incap otherwise.

This seems to be an extension of the Brilliant Tactician ruling where a limitation placed upon a power via a Special Power also translates to feats for which that power is a prereq.

10/31/2008, 13:17

Harpua

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Quote : Originally Posted by anonym0use

AN official ruling would be nice.

Will this do?
http://www.moreprofitsmoreproblems.c...23&postcount=9

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