I have tried to explain to you Rogan that it is believed that Deathstrike got the adamantium from Spiral. Maybe you didn't read my post, though, that's cool.

Also, has anyone heard of ,or remember, Speedfreak? I first saw him in Hulk and it was revealed that the speedster's blades extending from his forearms were made of adamantium.

Haven't seen the guy since then though, so...

Ironman doesn't have adamantium in his suit but he did have adamantium tipped missles that he used to defeat Ultimo in issue 300 of the 1st series.

maddhatter13:

I read your posts from way back when but I was just looking for the exact issue Lady Deathstrike got the adamantium.

I have read that issue of Uncanny where Spiral cyberized Lady D well over 20+ times. I still don't remember any mention of adamantium. I think it is a super-strong metal infused with Spiral's "special" magic that makes it adamantium-like.

Although, I have just seen X2 tonight and maybe that is where the rumor is coming from that Lady D has adamantium claws. In the movie she did, but the movie is not true to comic book continuity.

Great movie by the way!!

Well that cartoon I pointed out that has her saying she has Adamantium Claws is at least 10 years old. So the rumor is not new. Plus with the brand new Encyclopedia saying she has adamantium bones it’s a matter of just finding a comic to say it.

maddhatter13:

also,

Speedfreak made a couple of appearances in Peter David's Incredible Hulk. They were made out of adamantium and came out of his forearms. But they were in a housing unit outside on his forearms, not underneath his skin. I don't think you implied they were interior, but just thought I would clear that up.

brunt,

I didn't know about the encyclopedia reference. thanks.

I think I've seen/read every appearance of Wolvie & Lady D hacking each other up. She usually has pieces of bionics flying off her everywhere. So maybe it is only recently in the comics that she got the adamantium. Otherwise the bionics wouldn't be flying off if they were adamantium.

I have never seen her razor claws being shredded so maybe they are adamantium.

Originally posted by Brunt
Term…there are no facts in this debate.

Really? No facts? Then what do you call comic quotes? IRT this topic if I can quote the comic that says exactly what I am saying then I have proven my opinion to be fact.

If I said Superman could fly and you disagreed with me, could I not show comic example proving his ability to fly and thus him being able to fly is fact? Yes, I think so.

It is not possible to have a fact when you are talking about a fictional event.

Well gosh darn, that means, in your little world, Spider-Man is stronger than Thor...right? Or do you just get to pick and choose what is what? I mean...no facts and all fictional right?

Even the word of the almighty Busik is an opinion.

No, its not. If he, as a writer, puts his opinion down in an issue it become canon, ergo a fact.

He did not create Cap he is just giving us his vision of him currently.

There we go again with "currently". There is nothing except admitted mistakes to support the false claim that I reputed. I have writer support and an actual comic issue that supports me verbatim. There is no arguement. There is only continued resistance for some unknown reason. Pride maybe? Ego?

It’s also clear from his post that his personal felling about the writer of the shield origin influenced his opinion of the composite of the shield.

It wasn't his opinion. He did the research. If you say he is wrong, and his "opinion" is just that then prove it. I have PROVEN my case. Period.

What exactly should you expect?

I expect civility. I expect respect. I came into this thread expecting one thing and saw another. So when I attempted to make correction I was insulted and laughed at for even thinking agasint the grain. And now, when I prove that I am correct, and in this case always was, I still get carp. What would YOU expect?

Do you assume that I disagree with you because I dislike your abusive and aggressive tone toward other posters?

I became "abusive" (something I would like you to define please) when my statements were ridiculed.

If you had politely said that, yes at one point it was written that his shield had Admantium in it but it was later changed by another writer, I doubt that anyone would have argued the point beyond that.

Well, then I would be WRONG. At NO point was his shield written to contain adamantium. The few flawed examples were denounced by Marvel as mistakes. Read the adamantium write-up. It corrects the Cap write-up. Heck, Busiek admits this. Why is this so hard?

And I did come in here politely...and was ridiculed for it. The rest became defensive.

How would you feel if people called you the fool and ridiculed you for something you said while, the whole time, you were correct?

Personally, I don’t give a rats but about Caps shield (now I piss off everyone) he is a weak character that should have been retired in the 60’s, but that is my opinion and I have already stated what opinions are akin to.

And I respect you and your opinion. See? Easy wasn't it?

BTW: I have been away for the weekend...thats why this took so long. Cheers!

I post this only because he asks for definitions and examples. I’m really not interested in this Cap Shield debate anymore so this is my last post about Cap, I will continue to talk about Lady D if needed though.

Really? No facts? Then what do you call comic quotes? IRT this topic if I can quote the comic that says exactly what I am saying then I have proven my opinion to be fact.

So a quote from a fictional event can be a fact?

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ionary&va=fact

Nope didn’t see anything there that allows a Fictional event to have facts.
(And before anyone says #5 works…no, comics are a subjective reality, not objective reality)

If I said Superman could fly and you disagreed with me, could I not show comic example proving his ability to fly and thus him being able to fly is fact? Yes, I think so.

I could show you a comic in which he can not fly, Action Comics #1

http://superman.ws/tales2/action1/?page=-1

So we are both at the same time right and wrong. The concept of being both correct and incorrect simultaneously would fall under the heading of objective reality but since we are making the statements about our beliefs, perceptions or experiences it becomes subjective reality and no true facts exist.

Sorry, you can not derive a fact from an event that never happened. Now you can say that it’s a fact the book exists and the text in the book is a fact, but however you can not say that a quote form the book is a fact.

Well gosh darn, that means, in your little world, Spider-Man is stronger than Thor...right? Or do you just get to pick and choose what is what? I mean...no facts and all fictional right?

Yes, you have it exactly correct here. In any given book anything can happen and I’m sure anyone of us can pull 10 book from our own collection were a character is doing something that they should not be able to do or beating someone they should not be able to beat, but that is what is so great about comics.

No, its not. If he, as a writer, puts his opinion down in an issue it become canon, ergo a fact.

No, it’s a Rule or Law not a Fact.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...onary&va=canon (and click “canon [1,noun]” in the dropdown box)

There is a huge difference between a Law and a Fact and since I’m on page two of this post already I will skip the ethics debate for now and hope you are able to distinguish it on your own.

[i]There we go again with "currently". There is nothing except admitted mistakes to support the false claim that I reputed. I have writer support and an actual comic issue that supports me verbatim. There is no arguement. There is only continued resistance for some unknown reason. Pride maybe? Ego?[i]

You admit there are references to say his shield has Adamantium in it printed in a comic and offer a comic that was printed 10 to 15 years after recanting the original story, so, yes the best word to use is “currently”. So there is no argument, Caps shield dose not contain Adamantium as of the most recent story arc about the composition of his shield. I have to guess that the “Pride maybe? Ego?” was supposed to be addressed to me but I’m not sure why. I have never once said that I think, or even care, if Caps shield has Adamantium in it. If anyone is on an Ego trip here….

It wasn't his opinion. He did the research. If you say he is wrong, and his "opinion" is just that then prove it. I have PROVEN my case. Period.

I never said he was wrong, I just said that it’s his opinion on the subject. Because comics are a subjective reality and there are not facts only rules, “laws”, everything is a opinion and open to later interpretation that can change the rules we have come to know.

I expect civility. I expect respect. I came into this thread expecting one thing and saw another. So when I attempted to make correction I was insulted and laughed at for even thinking agasint the grain. And now, when I prove that I am correct, and in this case always was, I still get carp. What would YOU expect?

Here is your first post on this thread…

Cap's shield is NOT "true adamantium". It is a failed attempt at recreating adamantium. It is vibranium and some unknown metal that resulted in his shield. It is more durable than true adamantium though.

The “NOT” is aggressive and inflammatory to anyone who my have suggested that Caps shield is adamantium.

After this there are several benign post about the shield until you post…

OK...I am not trying to be argumentative but Captain America's shield does not have any adamantium in it, not has it ever.

It was an attempt to recreate adamantium. It is a blend of vibranium and unknown materials. The recipe is now lost and it is stronger than true adamantium. It also absorbs impact like pure vibranium does.

I will look up the specifics for everyone. I too used to think that until I was corrected by others and then did the research myself.

You say here it that it never had Adamantium in it. If you had posted right here and now that, “yes in the comics it once said it was but has now been changed”. The conversation would have never happened but upon reading this again it’s clear that even you did not know that right here. Because you argument changes several times in the thread and your “proof”, as you put it, several times was that Adamantium was created after Caps shield but right here you say, “It was an attempt to recreate adamantium”, so you were not always correct, no one ever is. The truth is you created the argument and then degraded it into a shouting war where nothing will ever get decided because when someone yells, no one listens.


I became "abusive" (something I would like you to define please) when my statements were ridiculed.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ary&va=abusive

Well, then I would be WRONG. At NO point was his shield written to contain adamantium. The few flawed examples were denounced by Marvel as mistakes. Read the adamantium write-up. It corrects the Cap write-up. Heck, Busiek admits this. Why is this so hard?

Yes, it was both you and the all knowing Busiek admit that it did say in a comic it contained Adamantium. OK, I have to point this out…“At NO point was his shield written to contain adamantium” … “The few flawed examples were denounced by Marvel as mistakes” …You say it didn’t happen then say it did in back to back sentences. “Why is this so hard?” … you tell me, you can’t even get it straight and you actually care about it. But to give you one solid example of a comic, Captain America #22 (vol.3).

And I did come in here politely...and was ridiculed for it. The rest became defensive.

All of you got defensive, but if you read this thread again you will see at what point it goes down hill and why.

How would you feel if people called you the fool and ridiculed you for something you said while, the whole time, you were correct?

You described my life…I’m a salesman, 15 years selling consumer electronics. Everything I say is questioned and scrutinized beyond belief. People don’t listen to me when I tell them a product is #### and not to buy it, then they yell at me when it breaks. After 15 years I have got the routine down so it doesn’t happen as often anymore but some people will just never listen, no matter how clearly you present your opinion.

And I respect you and your opinion. See? Easy wasn't it?

I never said that I didn’t respect you opinion, on the contrary I do respect it and believe it to be correct about the makeup of Caps shield, the problem is you don’t seem to accept that your opinion is not a fact.

BTW: I have been away for the weekend...thats why this took so long. Cheers!

I hope you had an enjoyable weekend and a pleasant rest of the week. I myself had an excellent weekend. I had the pleasure of being the best man at my best friends wedding, a very happy occasion for all.

Your firend,
Brunt

Originally posted by Brunt
I post this only because he asks for definitions and examples. I’m really not interested in this Cap Shield debate anymore so this is my last post about Cap, I will continue to talk about Lady D if needed though.

Brunt...we can discuss semantics all week. But it all comes down to context. Yes, this is a discussion regarding fictional events and characters. But, in the context of said fictional events and characters there are indeed facts and mistakes. Mistakes are those things we see as "shouldn't have happened". Especially those the writers admit to being mistakes.

So a quote from a fictional event can be a fact?

In the context of the story (aka the fictional event), yes.

Nope didn’t see anything there that allows a Fictional event to have facts.
(And before anyone says #5 works…no, comics are a subjective reality, not objective reality)

Semantics. Again, this can be argued to death. "What did the writer mean by..." blah blah blah...in this case we know what the writer meant. We have HIS word.

(note: by capitilizing "his" I am emphasizing the word. Nothing more, no offense intended.)

I could show you a comic in which he can not fly, Action Comics #1

And the dynamic nature of his powers explains the changes from that issue to the current. In this context...the shield is NOT dynamic.

(Note: emphasizing again.)


So we are both at the same time right and wrong. The concept of being both correct and incorrect simultaneously would fall under the heading of objective reality but since we are making the statements about our beliefs, perceptions or experiences it becomes subjective reality and no true facts exist.

No true. If you look at things in one way only...again semantics. Context is VERY important here.

Sorry, you can not derive a fact from an event that never happened. Now you can say that it’s a fact the book exists and the text in the book is a fact, but however you can not say that a quote form the book is a fact.

Context.

Yes, you have it exactly correct here. In any given book anything can happen and I’m sure anyone of us can pull 10 book from our own collection were a character is doing something that they should not be able to do or beating someone they should not be able to beat, but that is what is so great about comics.

Ah...yes we all can. But context plays a MAJOR role here. Writers give various explanations for mistakes and/or discrepencies (sp?).

No, it’s a Rule or Law not a Fact.

Context...semantics.

There is a huge difference between a Law and a Fact and since I’m on page two of this post already I will skip the ethics debate for now and hope you are able to distinguish it on your own.

Quite. Thank you. Now, in the context at hand we shall continue our discussion....right?

[i]There we go again with "currently". There is nothing except admitted mistakes to support the false claim that I reputed. I have writer support and an actual comic issue that supports me verbatim. There is no arguement. There is only continued resistance for some unknown reason. Pride maybe? Ego?[i]

You admit there are references to say his shield has Adamantium in it printed in a comic

No. I do not. There is not one comic that has seen print that explicitly says that there is adamantium in the shield. We have one example of its durability that referrences the word. I will admit that said descrption possibly makes an adamantium connection, however improbable, as long as those that are clinging to that belief admit that it may have nothing at all to do with the materials the shield is made of.

"adamantium-plus shield"
"man of steel"

Is Superman made of steel? Know what I mean?

(Note: handbooks, RPGs and cards are not canon in the comic universe.)

and offer a comic that was printed 10 to 15 years after recanting the original story, so, yes the best word to use is “currently”.

I am not recanting anything. That is my point. There is nothing to recant.

So there is no argument, Caps shield dose not contain Adamantium as of the most recent story arc about the composition of his shield. I have to guess that the “Pride maybe? Ego?” was supposed to be addressed to me but I’m not sure why.

Brunt...no. I apoligize if you saw it as that. I humbly apologize for impying that.

Those statements were intended for others that know who they are. Slinging insults for me even thinking I might be right.

I have never once said that I think, or even care, if Caps shield has Adamantium in it. If anyone is on an Ego trip here….

Ah...c'mon now. You assumed I meant you and now you try to turn it around on me? Now now...

I never said he was wrong, I just said that it’s his opinion on the subject. Because comics are a subjective reality and there are not facts only rules, “laws”, everything is a opinion and open to later interpretation that can change the rules we have come to know.

More semantics.

Here is your first post on this thread…

Cap's shield is NOT "true adamantium". It is a failed attempt at recreating adamantium. It is vibranium and some unknown metal that resulted in his shield. It is more durable than true adamantium though.

The “NOT” is aggressive and inflammatory to anyone who my have suggested that Caps shield is adamantium.

No, it was intended for emphasis. I wanted to make sure that statement wasn't glazed over as another "it's in there" statement.

After this there are several benign post about the shield until you post…

OK...I am not trying to be argumentative but Captain America's shield does not have any adamantium in it, not has it ever.

It was an attempt to recreate adamantium. It is a blend of vibranium and unknown materials. The recipe is now lost and it is stronger than true adamantium. It also absorbs impact like pure vibranium does.

I will look up the specifics for everyone. I too used to think that until I was corrected by others and then did the research myself.

You say here it that it never had Adamantium in it. If you had posted right here and now that, “yes in the comics it once said it was but has now been changed”.

Sigh...to say that I would have been wrong. Its not like there was an update...a change to the history of the shield. There simply was a clarification of its history. Again, there isn't one comic out there that backs that theory. And thats why I didn't include that.

The conversation would have never happened but upon reading this again it’s clear that even you did not know that right here. Because you argument changes several times in the thread and your “proof”, as you put it, several times was that Adamantium was created after Caps shield but right here you say, “It was an attempt to recreate adamantium”, so you were not always correct, no one ever is. The truth is you created the argument and then degraded it into a shouting war where nothing will ever get decided because when someone yells, no one listens.

My early mistakes were me trying to rememebr everything off the top of my head. Notice the research comment on my part?

Yes, it was both you and the all knowing Busiek admit that it did say in a comic it contained Adamantium.

No. In one handbook entry. Not a comic.

OK, I have to point this out…“At NO point was his shield written to contain adamantium” … “The few flawed examples were denounced by Marvel as mistakes” …You say it didn’t happen then say it did in back to back sentences. “Why is this so hard?” … you tell me, you can’t even get it straight and you actually care about it. But to give you one solid example of a comic, Captain America #22 (vol.3).

No. I never said it occured in a COMIC. A handbook is that flawed example...as is the card. There is a huge difference.

I will look into that issue. Thank you.

I hope you had an enjoyable weekend and a pleasant rest of the week. I myself had an excellent weekend. I had the pleasure of being the best man at my best friends wedding, a very happy occasion for all.

Congrats...give the new couple my best.

Ok, going back and reading the thread again, I can pinpoint the moment this thread started heading towards a flame war. Wanna see it?

Capatilizing one three letter word for enphasis is not an insult.

Look at what he posted. He went off the debate about adamantium and slung comments about Term himself.

That is when it went downhill. After that, things went to hell. So, don't go trying to lay all this down on Term. He saw people making the same mistake he used to make until someone who was more informed corrected him. So, being like almost everyone else on the planet, he corrected their mistake. I do the same thing. When I see people claiming that Wolverine is only as strong as Joe Schmo, I correct them.

Just like you are doing Brunt, posting definitions for facts and laws and the such. He did nothing wrong, cause if he did do something wrong, then you did something wrong as well. Are you abrasive and starting a flame war as well?

boys please settle down. stop talking about each other. i posted 1 simple question about bullseye about 2 weeks ago and check my mail now and i have 300 posts of people arguing with each other about a peice of metal. the debate is over, everyone has said all there is to say all your doing now is repeating yourselves. i suggest everyone retreat back into your imaginary comic book kingdoms and let everyone make up thier own minds. now if i could only unsubscribe to this tread.

boys please settle down. stop talking about each other. i posted 1 simple question about bullseye about 2 weeks ago and check my mail now and i have 300 posts of people arguing with each other about a peice of metal. the debate is over, everyone has said all there is to say all your doing now is repeating yourselves. i suggest everyone retreat back into your imaginary comic book kingdoms and let everyone make up thier own minds. now if i could only unsubscribe to this tread.

You can unsubscribe to this thing if it is cluttering up your mailbox. At the top, there is a bunch of links. They read as follows.

HOME FORUM CHAT USER CP CALENDAR MEMBERS UNITS MYREALMS

Click the one that says USER CP. This will bring you to a list of threads you are subscribed to. Under the name of this thread, there is a button that says Unsubscribe. Click it and be done with us.

Now, back to the fun.