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That is indeed my understanding. You have to have the object to place the object. Unless the Wonder Twins come with their own bucket, which as far as I know they don't, you have to have the LE Bucket of Water in order to use their trait in that manner.
Quote : Originally Posted by vlad3theimpaler
Web tokens are special markers. 3D Objects have special rules and require one to have the actual object in order to use them. Just like switching out figures for an alter ego requires one to have the physical figure.
Those are both valid interpretations.
I'm really just playing devil's advocate here, largely because I expect the WT's card to be errata'ed; in the vein of Devil's Advocate, however, the AE example breaks down since it stipulates the exact set symbol and number of the character to be replaced, while the Wonder Twins' power does not have any such disambiguation.
For instance compare the Bruce Wayne AE power:
Quote : Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne
ALTER EGO: BATMAN: Give Bruce Wayne a Power Action and Replace this character with Batman (BB #16) on its orange starting line. Existing action tokens from this character, as well as action tokens and pushing damage for this action are applied to the replacement Batman. If replaced, no victory points are awarded for this character and the replacement Batman is considered to be 48 points for all game effects.
to the WoS Spider-Man Web power:
Quote : Originally Posted by Spider-Man
WEB: WEB-SHOOTERS: Once at the beginning of your turn, if Spider-Man has no action tokens, as a free action he may place a Web special terrain marker in a square occupied by a target opposing character within 6 squares and line of fire.
and finally compare it to the Bucket of Water portion of the Wonder Twins Trait:
Quote : Originally Posted by WOnder Twins
BUCKET OF WATER: Once during your turn, if none are on the map, you may place a Bucket of Water special object adjacent to the Wonder Twins as a free action.
The text for Bucket of Water is more similar to the Web Tokens than it is to the AE mechanic. Furthermore, the Web Tokens were also 3D objects whose description happened to be listed on the characters' cards, much like the bucket of water.
It was stated in a press release that a "SPECIAL" token could be proxied for the Web Tokens, which sets a precedent. While nothing has been said about the Bucket of Water directly, if I am allowed to proxy a standard "special" token for a Web Token what's to stop me from proxying a standard light object for a Bucket of Water light object?
Again, I expect there will be (web)errata to the description on the Wonder Twins' card, but until then a case can be made.
EDIT: I see Harpua's weighed in. I still maintain the necessity of errata, but don't disagree with the ruling.
Web tokens are in absolutely no way objects. They are 100% terrain.
Er... yeah, that was really a mistype on my part. I meant '3D element,' but typed '3D object' without really meaning to use game terms. My bad.
Quote : Originally Posted by Harpua
I don't disagree that errata for consistency would be nice, but not having it would not change anything, imo.
Works for me.
By way of absolute crystal clarification, though, this does mean that the only way to use the Bucket of Water portion of the Wonder Twins trait is if you actually possess the LE object, correct? No PnP proxy, or anything like that, yeah?
By way of absolute crystal clarification, though, this does mean that the only way to use the Bucket of Water portion of the Wonder Twins trait is if you actually possess the LE object, correct? No PnP proxy, or anything like that, yeah?
That is correct for official play, such as at GenCon. For local organized play, it can't hurt to check with your judge.
Now, if you're playing among your friends and they don't let you proxy, may I suggest finding new friends?
Now, if you're playing among your friends and they don't let you proxy, may I suggest finding new friends?
That's a rather harsh solution to a problem that can be solved with some beers
Always worked for me ! (bring some tequila, in case beers won't do the trick).