While I agree with the end statement - these aren't vehicles for the Star Trek line; these are the 'characters', I disagree with the first statement.

Everything in ST: Tactics *IS* explicitly designed to work with the other universes.

They're just neither Modern nor Golden Age.

I say this only because, in the rare events that my venue does that DON'T have those requirements (and they are almost entirely comic enthusiests, so it's pretty much when the store MAKES them) I and the other two trek geeks get out our ships. We've even won, occassionally.

But they are completely compatible.

And this guy? This guy gives us a little more bite for those events. I like it.

A request for a Titans or Spider-Man preview makes MUCH more sense than a SoG one. Heck, there's only one SoG dial left unpoiled this morning (Robincycle), AFAIK. PM me if you need a link to the thread with the SoG dials.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy to see some previews of the ships. If WK wants to actually build any hype on this release, they need to give fans a taste of the new dials and ships.

Sorry, but that's not true. They use the same rules and are therefore compatible, yes. But they weren't *designed* to be intermingled, they just use the same basic rules. You can see this in the dial design/cost and the size of the sculpts. While WK has never been too bothered to get scale exactly right, they at least make an attempt with the main Heroclix releases to keep the figures from being ridiculously out of proportion. They don't bother to do this with the Star Trek ships because they aren't designed to run with those other figures.

FWIW I never said you couldn't PLAY them with and against other Heroclix. That's different than them being designed specifically for that.


The fact that they use compatible rules and that you can house rule them at your venue to use them doesn't have any bearing on my statement. The fact that they are neither Modern or Golden Age supports the idea that they aren't designed to run with regular Heroclix. You *CAN* run them against regular Heroclix if you want...the rules support that. But I'm sure the dial designs don't take regular Heroclix into account, and they were most likely never playtested against regular Heroclix.

The cool thing about that is that it gives the design team much more freedom when designing these ships. They can freely ignore everything but other Star Trek Heroclix when designing the dials (and the sculptors can do the same when sculpting the ships), and they can set points costs at "cleaner" levels for easier force calculations.

Scale for these isn't that big of a deal to me. At least they have painted detail unlike the Fleet Captains game.

....

By that definition, Marvel and DC Heroclix aren't designed to be intermingled either.....

That's just ludicrous. Respectfully, just they aren't to your definition of scale in no way demonstrates that the games were not designed to work together. That they didn't do something similar to Batman:Alpha or completely redesign the dials (ala the actual stand-alone Fleet Captains game) tells me that the games ARE designed to be played together. The fact that they did leave them on their own and at a scale where you can have them on the same map as all other Heroclix says a lot more, to me, than that they didn't.

This goes back to your previous statement. I disagree with the logic of 'just because you can, doesn't mean it is.' This isn't someone using a butter knife instead of screwdriver. This is someone using one Heroclix property with another. The logic of your statement could be applied accross any of the Superhero sets just as easily - Just because Marvel and DC use the same rules, and the same PAC, and only have differing TA's doesn't mean they were designed to be played together.

Which is, respectfully, nonsense. They're the same game - whether with Assassin's, Spartans, Titans, or X-Men and they are meant to be played together.

If Wizkids wants to support their two primary liscenses and make them the only 'legal' sets for tournaments and official events, cool. I can't say I blame them - I wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds me either; but that doesn't in any way provide any kind of legitimacy to one set not being designed to work with another.

That statement makes no sense based on what I wrote.

DC Heroclix and Marvel Heroclix are obviously designed to work together:

1) The figures are sculpted to roughly the same scale. It can range from 25mm - 30mm for characters that are roughly man-sized, but it's the same ballpark.

2) The dials are "scaled" to make sense when characters from the two linies are intermingled. By this I mean they are *designed* to allow you to take, say, Batman, pit him against Iron Man, and play a game that "feels" like the two characters are battling each other in a way that you might expect to see in the comics.

3) The Modern Age and Golden Age lists include both DC and Marvel sets. And each new set (whether DC or Marvel) goes to Modern Age when released and then transitions to Golden Age with time. Even the non-comic sets like Hobbit and Halo go to at least Golden Age upon release.


In contrast, the Star Trek pieces:

1) Are obviously not sculpted to scale with "regular" Heroclix. They're orders of magnitude off in terms of scale.

2) Have dials that are obviously not "scaled" in power to fit with regular Heroclix. Compare a GCPD Cop to even the smallest Star Trek ship and it becomes plain that there are two completely different things being represented here. There is no way that a normal policeman should be able to take down the Enterprise in single combat. They are obviously not designed to make sense together.

3) Don't go to Golden or Modern Age when they are released.


No, it's logical.


By not putting those sets in the Ages, it allows them to create dials that don't have to represent the power those ships would REALLY have in the Marvel or DC Universes. They don't have to concern themselves with playtesting the ships against regular Heroclix pieces; they only have to playtest them against other ships in the same line. There's absolutely no reason to believe that they would design them with regular Heroclix in mind, or even playtest them against regular Heroclix.

Just because the rules allow you to play the pieces together doesn't mean that the designers are considering the interaction between the pieces when they are designing these ships. That's all I'm saying. Given that, they don't need to worry about making them vehicles...Batman isn't INTENDED to go aboard the Enterprise, so they don't need rules that would allow him to do so.

I don't agree that the ships are designed on a different power scale, or any differently at all. But I agree that conceptually, and figure-scale-wise, they are pretty clearly "other." Their inclusion doesn't bother me, though I can understand why some would feel differently. I feel that their "incompatibility" is on a token scale, with the official line of "these products are compatible but they are separate lines for separate games" being the only thing (besides ship-scale) separating it from Marvel vs. DC compatability.