Ok - have an idea for a fun team, but not sure how it would play out. Here are the traits at issue:

DP 042 Grasshopper: "AH, BUT I'M THE SECRET BROTHER OF THE SECRET CRUSH OF THE FIRST GRASSHOPPER!: When Grasshopper is KO'd if no other friendly characters have been KO'd, after actions resolve you may place him on the map in your starting area on click #1."

WAXM 020 White King" "AS LONG AS MY HEAD SURVIVES: When White King's first KO click is revealed, instead of being KO'd, keep turning the dial as normal for the damage taken (up to click #12). White King is removed from the map, and at the beginning of each of your turns, heal him of 1 damage. When click #6 is revealed, place him into your starting area. If all other friendly characters are KO'd or no longer on the map while White King is not on the map, he is KO'd."

The interaction of these two figures presents an interesting concept. So here are my questions:

1) Assume no friendly characters have been KO'd. White King was dealt sufficient damage to be placed off the map and has since returned. Now, Grasshopper is KO'ed. Do I get to place Grasshopper in my starting area on click 1? My read of the operative traits would lead me to say "yes," given White King's trait says "instead of being KO'd."

2) White King has been dealt sufficient damage to be taken off the map and is in the process of healing back to click 6 off the map. Assume White King and Grasshopper are the only two figures on my team. Grasshopper is KO'd while White King is off the map. Do I get to place Grasshopper in my starting area on click 1? This one is a harder question for me, I could see it going either way depending the order in which events should occur. Specifically, White King's trait states he is not KO'ed until no figures are on the map when he is off the map healing. So, at the moment that Grasshopper is KO'ed, "no other friendly characters have been KO'd" as of yet, and seemingly you would be able to place him in the starting area.

3) Looking at question #2 above, if the answer is that Grasshopper is returned to the starting area, what impact does this have on White King off the map? Does the act of Grasshopper being KO'd and being placed back in my starting area operate to KO White King because there is a brief moment in time in which all friendly characters are "no longer on the map." In other words, is Grasshopper considered not on the map in the moment intervening him being KO'd and being placed back in the starting area on Click #1? Or does White King keep on chugging along?

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts!

1) You will get to place Grasshopper as no friendly characters have been KO'd.

2) White King will be KO'd when Grasshopper is KO'd. Grasshopper is only returned after actions have resolved, so there is a time frame when there are no friendly characters on the map, so White King will be KO'd.

Vanisher - is it true that if you KO White King with PW that he doesn't get to come back at all, even if other figs are on the map?

I would think that it would happen like this for #2 and #3 (agree about #1)

White King would be but isn't KO'd and is placed off the map.

Grasshopper is KO'd.

No friendlies on the map means White King is KO'd.

Grasshopper could not be returned to the map because White King getting KO'd would happen during the action.

No figures on the map regardless at this point means you lose.

Something like that.

yarkindell, does your opinion change at all if White King managed to pick up the m'krran crystal sliver?

My opinion changes with rum.

(I'll look up the verbiage)

Yes I think it would. Because it says would. So he wouldn't be KO'd he'd return. Now how does that mix with Grasshopper being KO'd?

I'm thinking since King would not have been KO'd Grasshopper would return because no one has been KO'd but him.

Now how would that work with your opponent?

A) They take a shot of rum and continue playing.

B) Their head explodes from the weirdness that is happening.

C) So fast is their movement that you find yourself under an overturned table wondering if Hapgood's crustal shift just happened.

D) The judge is called and rules that this is just silly and you lose because for a nanosecond you have no characters in the field of battle.

No, this is not true. White King's trait changes how he is KO'd so it cannot be ignored as per this line from the Player's Guide:

Game effects which alter the way a figure is KO’d or otherwise
defeated can’t be ignored.

And the way I see this combination of Grasshopper and White King with the M'kraan Crystal would be like this:

1. Grasshopper is KO'd and since no other friendly character is KO'd, his trait triggers. At this time he is removed from the map and must wait until actions resolve to be placed in the starting area.
2. Since there are no friendly characters on the map, White King would be KO'd, which triggers the M'kraan Crystal and heals him so that he is not KO'd.
3. Because White King was not KO'd and is still on the map, Grasshopper can be placed in the starting area after actions have resolved.

I don't think that this is correct. Normally, a character is defeated once it reaches a KO click. White King's trait changes when he is KO'd, not how he is KO'd. Pulse Wave should ignore his trait and KO him normally when he hits a KO click.

Examples of characters that alter the way they are KOd would be SLoSH Bizarro (KOd by losing his last token) or Misty Knight & Colleen Wing (KOd when they cross a specific color line).

This is correct. That is one of, if not the, most misinterpreted lines in the rules/Player's guide.

That rule is only there for effects that change HOW a character is KO'd such as Bizarro, Obnoxio, Spider-Man 2099 (at the higher point level), etc...

If a Game Effect says "This character is KO'd when ..... happens" then that cannot be ignored. Otherwise you could have figures who would never KO or Prematurely KO, such as Spider-Man 2099. Without this rule he would KO when he crosses the RED KO line no matter what point value you played him at if he was Pulse Waved.

If a character says WHEN it would KO instead do X, that can be ignored (unless the power specifically says it cannot be ignored).

I'm am beyond 100% positive of this.

As always if you doubt me or have other questions please send your questions to [email protected]