Personally I'm happy with the ruling... I feel that Feats should never become "staples" and are best used as "cute tricks" rather than game-winners. That's probably why I hate Protected :P

Well, as Super Strength is one of the more difficult powers to use consistently, it seems odd they are limiting it even more.

I wouldn't have a problem with Protected if it had ANY prerequisites, but it is simply an annoyance now

How about this:
Protected
When you discard this card, you may get a free second use of any defensive, damage reduction or damage avoidance power or team ability. This applies even if a power was Outwitted or negated in some way

Didn't make Super Senses? Discard protected and try again. Toughness not enough? Use it twice against this one attack. Not quite shape changey or Skrully enough? Try again! Superman psychically blasted? He steels himself and uses his Impervious anyway. Hulk hit with armour-piercing rounds? Protected it so he doesn't take a hit!

This is balanced because it is only one use

What do you mean by "difficult to use"? The way I normally play, there's always some object lying about begging for me to hit somebody with. Most of the serious bruisers have some means of getting it to the opponent without having to sit there and get knocked about. Sure you can be outwitted, but so can anything...

Ah, I like what you've proposed! Yes, that would be a little more reasonable for 8 points, and on top of that, more comic-book logical.

Hmmm..... to a point, I like the idea. It would basically work the same for low damage attacks for most figures, but it wouldn't TOTALLY negate a 7-9 Dmg hit (aside from SSenses/Imp... but I don't think Imp should take off THAT much damage either).
Only problem comes for figures that don't HAVE a defensive power.... or a defensive power like ES/D (which would conflict with the wording you used, just for the Ro3 if nothing else).

It would balance it out a bit more, but maybe the "next incarnation" of it could be X-amount of damage reduced or some such.

I started to read and then skipped the other 8 pages. I need to know if I got this right.

Best pounce option....?
note:assuming mailbox is the light that adds +1 damage. The mailbox, soda machine and LoSH item bonus damage is apparantly modifiying damage dealt, not the damage value like the items.

1 damge figure with Super Strength Pounces with the Mailbox?

1 (base) + 1 (Mailbox)= 2 (max for pounce..check) + 1 (pounce) + 1 (extra mailbox damage after the fact)
= 4 max?

Nope. Mailbox and Soda Machine do indeed modify damage dealt, per the Outdoor Adventure pack rules. The Com Dish from LoSH, though, uses the new 'damage value' wording.


Correct. Plus a critical hit could add an extra click to damage dealt (5 total so far) and if you happen to roll doubles (crit hit or not) knockback damage added after the fact could still be pretty nasty.

While I will admit Burleigh was right in his interpetation (however flawed that "official ruling" is) I quote Mr. JacinB here so that the obsurdity of this ruling can be shown.

As much as I don't want to resurrect this debate that's already taken up so many pages.... I'm just going to leave it at people interpretting the rules in different ways.

I've been retyping this message a few times to say how I got to my conclusion.... but I've already said it all and I don't want to start a debate again.

Burleigh2: Look, I am not going to get into a "he said, she said" kinda thing here but the fact of the matter is WizKids has opened a whole new can of worms here.

At which point does the damage increase from an object apply? As soon as you pick it up?

Nope...then you couldn;t use Nanobots.

As soon as you declare a close combat attack?

Nope, rolled a Skrull/Shape Change/Danger Girl, so now I have to attack figure B, with Range...is my damage still increased because I declared a close combat attack originally? At what point does that damage valaue return to normal? Once the object is used? What if it isn't used after a declaration (see Skrull roll above)?

I know these are silly (rhetorical) questions but the point remains. They took a simple rule and mucked it up because someone went "OMG! Pounce with a Meteorite means penetrating damage! We can't have that!"

So instead of changing one special object the change the core rules.

Now Pounce costs 15 points and a click of life with very little benifit to it...go ahead Pounce that Impervious brick! CLANG! No damage!

Gee, Taskmaster doesn't seem so expensive after all.

I've grown to accept the new restrictions on their own - having Spidey making a high-speed attack from distance carrying a dumpster has always been somewhat extreme and less than representative of the character's abilities. It does, however, bring me back to concerns about whether or not we'll ever see a Pounce-like Feat for characters such as the Hulk who have a greater than 2 Damage base stat. I'd hate to think all such things will be handled by Special Powers, as I'd prefer something I can retroactively employ to pump life into the oh-so-disappointing-in-play Infinity Challenge Hulks -- a great-looking REV (sculpt) that was practically suicide to field. Something to let him leap to the attack and ramp himself up. Something to make him into the threat he should always have been but never really has. (Yes, both versions of Ultimates Hulk and the 2099 one have their pluses, but none capture what the Hulk should be.)

I tend to think that they won't want to simply create a new uber-Pounce card allowing for a higher base damage because then we'd quickly have Spider-man back to swinging in with a truck in his hands.

What do you think? A more expensive super-Pounce to attempt to limit its use? Has this simply become the province of built-in special powers? Adding an Invulnerabilty or Impervious co-requisite with Leap/Climb doesn't seem fair, but I suppose that's a possibility.

(As an aside, I do like Big Soph's thinking on a revised Protected.)

That would be when the close combat attack is made:
It specified that when it is used IN an attack (meaning after the declaration, before the roll).
That would also answer your question about the Skrull/SC/DG... it's after it's declaired (the SC roll wouldn't allow it, so it doesn't increase). The value returns to normal after the roll (when the object is used).

I think they actually changed the rule moreso because of people perplexing up high damage value (like Superman, Magog, or Ult Hulk), then using an object to deal enough damage to 1-hit KO any figure on the board (even if they have Invulnerable or Impervious that fails the roll).... after all, how often does Superman or Hulk get knocked out in a single hit (that's not dealt by Galactus or somesuch)?
Pounce just happened to be an after-effect. If Pounce was the REASON for it, they would have reissued Pounce (like they did in Origins) to say "not useable with an object" and have it done with.


I think Dr.HellCustom put it the best (and sarcastically enough):

Agreed, superman with icwo & two cheep perplexers was doing 10 damage with the dumpster. Let's cap the damage at 8 possible and limit that to Superman/Hulk like figures. Even most Invulnerable figures will be crippled by that.