If a certain card is consistently beating you and you cannot stop it, then yeah I believe it is fair to say you are short in the talent department. The influence of BLS is being blown way out of proportion. It is one card which you cannot search for. If you really want to stop BLS, then run 3 Kycoos....but if you haven't noticed the use of Kycoo has declined significantly since everyone has realized that teching for one individual card which cannot be searched for is pretty stupid. The overal meta has declared that teching hard against BLS is not the best option.

Also saying my argument lacks facts and validity is to have a misconception of what those terms mean. I have been in alot of tournaments and I have performed well in alot of big tournaments. I have backed up my theories time and time again. I know the skill level of the people I have betten with BLS and the skill level of the people who have beaten me with BLS. My observations are based upon dueling experience, not some obtuse argument from an arm chair or the sidelines.

As for me being a MTG player...uh...no...guess again. I prefere VS System to any other card game out there. In fact I own one Yugioh deck and about 7 VS decks. It is because I play VS that I find these treads so humorus. Everyone in Yugioh complains about the lack of originality and the lack of diversity, but I have a hard time finding VS which is the most balanced card game I have ever seen. Also originality can really produce results in that game. The last 3 10ks have been won with original decks (EMS and Fantastic Fun)

As for me not seeing the big picture, I think I see the big picture perfectly well. The big picture is that there will ALWAYS be cards which are used in 80% of the decks. All the ban list really does is change what those cards are every six months. When BLS is banned, people will just move on to the next "broken card". The big picture is that this type of discussion will never end in Yugioh the only thing that will change is the name of the card.

In the end all this is pointless since at every major tournament all the top players will be playing with variations of the same deck. Personally I don't have a problem with this since skill will still win out. Heck in Poker everyone plays with the same 52 cards and skill triumphs there as well.

As for the the BLS coming back again and agian. I can honestly say I have never lost to a deck with Monster Reincarnation in it..So I stand by my original statement. If you are losing all the time it is not because of BLS, it is because you sux.

*sighs*

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't think there's a duelist alive who says that BLS isn't a good card. It's an excellent card. If played at the right time, it can be a duel-altering card. I can see why some people might think it's "broken", but I personally don't think a card is broken until the card's effect states the following.

"This card cannot be attacked and is unaffected by the effects of your opponent's cards."

THAT, my friends, is broken. Even if it had no other effects, it is broken because it cannot be blocked. Your opponent cannot do anything to get rid of it; they must find a way to work around it. BLS has plenty of counters; there's no need for me to list them all, becuase they've probably all been listed already.

The problem I have with BLS is a topic that has come up on this thread before: netdecking. I will be the first one to agree that BLS is a powerful card; heck, I've lost to it plenty of times. Have I been annoyed? You bet. Am I going to scream and shout because I've lost to it? No. However, I am going to get a bit upset when I play 8 duels and 7 of those eight decks are identical. I'm not sure what the statistic is for the number of people who run BLS, but it's far higher than it should be. The only reason I think BLS should be banned is not because of its powerful effect, but because it would force a large number of duelists to change their deck tactics. We would see some actually interesting duels in tournaments, as opposed to Chaos all over the place.

Of course, I have absolutely nothing to say about the fact that Konami is releasing BLS as a Promo in Master Collection 2 where everybody can get one.

Oh get over yourself. I know there is no such things as a staple in this game but things are broken. Where did you get the idea that I was even comparing it to the show. It has not appeared on duel monsters and never will. A person that debates well is somone that no how to argue civily. When it comes to everyone running one when it comes out as a promo then it will just make it more broken. Tell me if there is a better monster out there than that and then I will gladly withdraw my argument. Why do they have it restricted to one if it is not a broken monster at all. They banned scientist because everyone ran him. You miscontrewed my argument also. Let me put this into magic terms for you. I have and Ischron sceptor not the most broken card in magic albeit but stretch it to yugioh and actually try. If we can find a card that would make NOC continous like isochron sceptor makes some other instants continous it would be broken. Yes I do see the mistake in my arguement but do completely superimpose each of the two games. BLS does not have the ability to get rid of copies of cards but it was replaced with removing a light and a dark there is no cost at all. The fact that it can attack twice with no cost is also to overpowered. All you are doing is miscontrewing arguments to get them to say what you want them to say and make your own statements. You blow things way out of porportion to you know. Everycard has it's weakness and strength but the weaknesses of BLS is negligble to it strengths. Do say that I am not an individual. I am not normal by all means but I am also educated to. I see the whole picture of things when I want to and I am. It should be banned becuase people overplay it. They know that they can win with it like scienetist. I have a very bad replica of a chaos deck but it is my own deck and people do not use it. Go to nationals and you probably will see this card in the 8 top ranked people. It does not introduce variety to the game. Basically it is if a person has BLS in there deck they are already given top a rank before the tournment happens. Why you got this notion that it is not a broken card is beyond me. I'm done because when the majority of people say it is broken then it is and the few people who say it is not can not do a thing about it.

BLS-EOTB is NOT that hard to come by, not by a long shot! Everyone in my area has one or two for trade nor is its being limited make it more broken as people did run 3 in decks before the restricted list was updated, take it off and you would see 3 in virtually every deck!

mtruitt lets say I concede this point to you (I don't but nevertheless) If you ban broken cards people would just run other broken cards in its place! THAT ALONE WOULD JUSTIFY A BAN LIST! Before the ban list the tournament cookie cutter had remained unchanged for what a YEAR! In my area where many players play cookie cutters in Traditional their decks have remained virtually unchanged for at least that long! Can you say STALE!!!

I am not whining nor are ANY OF THE OTHER PEOPLE who have posted here!

So every time you don't like what you here you right it off as whining is that it?

I didn't think I would post here anymore, but I just had to respond to this.
This comment doesn't make much sense. People replace things, and that justifies the ban list...? And you seem to like caps alot too, simmer. =\

Btw:

Mataza + Goats + United. Wow. Drift with me? >_>

lol your still sticking to the chaos theory... that Im just whining cuz I get beat by it and that Im immature... rofl you think MTG is better than yugioh.... lmao.... hahahahahahahhahaha.. go play that than if you love your broken cards so much there are plenty of those.... isochron scepter for one can lock a game down like second turn... haha.... go away. Im glad your done debating because that means I dont have to hear nonsense anymore.... BLS is broken... period. End of discussion... maybe you should take this argument up with my girlfriend lol........ she would tell you the same thing i am.

Lily, you did put up a lot of good arguements, but they all match up to the "Chaos Theory" I've heard in one way or another. If you come back to this thread at all, theres only one point that you havent really adressed.

The fact that BLS steals victory, right away from its rightful owner. BLS makes comebacks without snatch steal impossable. No other card shuts down as much as he does exept cards that flat out negate whole card types (monster, magic, trap).

I don't honestly know how to simplify my statements any further! My point was that a ban list forces players to create NEW decks, even if it accomplished nothing else that would justify the existance of a ban list. I do LOVE caps as I use them to emphasize key words in a sentence in the hopes it will help people understand what I'm saying...like Treykura who seems to suffer from severe dislexia. It was mtruitt that made the comment that chaos=control and that the ban list accomplishes nothing as players will simply run other cards in the place of the banned cards. I don't even know where the "because you win from it, it should be banned" came from. Seriously, are you running a fever? It should be banned because it creates an environment that favors luck over skill, cookie cutters, and in general is a broken unbalanced card!

joan, use italics ([i ] ___ [/i ]) in the future. Caps usually mean shouting rather than emphasis.

I'm not exactly the best debater, but I guess I'll say this for the sake of saying it:

We've had monsters that have attack power over 2500. The only one we pretty much use now is BLS.

We've had monsters that can attack multiple times. BLS is the big daddy now, except for the stray Mataza.

Well, since we've dealt with big attackers and double-attackers in the past, I don't think the attacking ability is quite so relavant. I've beat BLS, I've been beaten by it, meh. Then again, I've also been beaten by a Blazing Inpachi with 2x Axe of Despair hooked onto it, but I dunno how more-or-less mediocre that makes me out to be.

I think the only problem with it is the remove-from-play ability. This is an effect really unique to Luster - Envoy, since that's the only part of it that is pretty much unhindered. The double-attack requires a monster, the summon requires mons in the graveyard, yada yada.

And there are still plenty of ways to get big attackers onto the field within the first several turns. I've gotten Shinato, King of a Higher Plane onto the field on turn one plenty of times. I've gotten Guardian Angel Joan onto the field on turn three by sacrificing 2x Mystical Shine Ball. Getting monsters onto the field is not too difficult in the first place.

So, really, in my opinion, the only thing that holds water is the remove-from-play effect, that part is a bit overdone. but without that, Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the beginning is a modified beatstick, and beatsticks and multi-attackers aren't exactly new problems. I can understand he's frightening since into today's competitive metagame he's the only monster regularly used that has over 2400 attack, but, seriously, whatever you can do to Blue-Eyes White Dragon can be done to a Black Luster Soldier. And then some. =\

Fallacy #1-We should only ban monsters that are "untouchable" Yata-Garasu, CED, etc.
Rebuttal-Yet Witch and Fiber Jar were banned as well as IFL! Will anyone argue that BLS-EOTB is inferior to IFL! Please, I'd love to see that! If he is inferior why is he in every deck and IFL is strangely absent from the tourny scene!

Fallacy #2-There are a lot more cards that can counter BLS-EOTB
Rebuttal-All of them STOP him after hes had a turn to do 3000 + damage or remove a monster form the game, as well as giving the player who summoned him a SICK advantage (Field, Lifepoints, Card)

Will anyone disagree with the statement that he is the best monster in the current advanced format? Will anyone disagree with the statement that BLS-EOTB acts as a Black Hole on the gravitational field of the metagame causing all decks to revolve around him or around countering him?

ENOUGH SEMANTICS! BAN THE MOTHER (INSERT EXPLETIVE)!