I expected to lose Raven and gfish as they were very obviously scum. TBB's gambit was unexpected though - too bad he had the idea just after I went to bed or I would have talked him out of it. We should have planned ahead and made someone a votestealer though.

And maybe not kill me the last night.

Yeah, maybe. I hate X-factors though.

Yeah shouldn't have happened. I feel bad that I may have altered the game balance but at the time I really felt crappy about it because I got Thawmus killed for what was a personal principle of mine and probably affected the game balance in the process. It feels really crummy that someone else lost because of a meta decision on my part and for that, I'm sorry to everyone.

Rokk for the record I don't appreciate what you did. I think it was a legit play in the game, because I've done things before in a game that I don't think through and involve meta aspects or "bets". Many of us do that. And in the heat of trying to win a point or show someone up, we all say things that we may not otherwise, given some time to reflect.

I hope that when YOU THE PLAYER asked ME THE PLAYER about my personal honor outside the game, you were not intending to justify whatever outcome resulted with a ridiculous "I love to RP" response, because if that's the case, frankly, I feel a little insulted. I would prefer a "hey Silver, I was acting in the heat of the moment and my thoughts and words got away from me." I really hope that was the case.

Hey man if it's any consolation, I've felt crummier playing this game with that whole situation around me, than I've ever felt in mafia. I've been angry many times in games. But feeling bad and crappy? Only situation that comes to mind was Mal's game when I was Volstagg, and refused to power claim.

Like I didn't call you out from like D2... Good catch on the innocent girl write up ID though... My own fault for truthfully claiming. I blame Darq for not giving me a fake claim when he KNOWS I don't even watch TV by my own admission...

I agree with you that meta stuff sucks and it doesn't belong in the game. I think that unfortunately sometimes our perception of what's important gets warped during these games and we tend to use any and every advantage possible to get ahead or win an argument. I think that's where the problem lies. At least I know I'm guilty of that and I think others are too.

No matter how many times we say "it's only a game" we go and do dumb crap like let our real life emotions get in the way. I mean we see people getting upset IRL about getting killed or lynched all the time. Heck I still do that from time to time, but I REALLY try hard not to take those kills personally.

It wasn't just my personal word. It was my personal word in everything I've ever said and ever will do or say. I mean he really left me no choice.

Look I don't expect most people would make the decision I made, and hey, I'm cool with that. Some people have no boundaries. Others do. Unfortunately we play this game with human beings who are unpredictable and have emotions and principles about things. There are things that anyone here can say about anyone else that is totally out of bounds and there's some lines that just should not be crossed. I understand that most of you feel that Rokk did not cross that line, and hey, maybe he didn't, but to me, I don't want to experience what happened in this game ever again in a mafia game. It is not why I play mafia. I don't play it to have my personal character and ethics called into question or held up for scrutiny. Some may not care about those things, I DO. For me, that's one of those lines that shouldn't be crossed. Did Rokk know this? I'm sure he didn't. Will he EVER pull a stunt like that with me again? I'm sure he won't.

I understand your point about not mixing personal ethics with the game, and generally I agree with it. However, I've developed what I consider to be an uneasy truce/friendliness with Rokk that in my mind transcends the game and the forums, at least I like to think it does. So to me, the fact that someone who I sorta know outside of the context of mafia games was asking me to put my personal honor and veracity in everything I've ever said and will say not just in games but outside of games too on the line, within a game, well, there just wasn't any question what I would do. In that situation there is no choice for me, and if we did this exercise 100 times over, I like to think that every time I would handle it how I handled it this time. Criticize me if you will.

And I recognize I am probably wrong in my view, but I feel so strongly about it, that I just can't change it. I'm sorry.

I lie in games as scum yes. I do it all the time. I challenge people with Sig bets all the time. I know I've gotten into a few heated debates with you where I've involved meta aspects and I recognize those are wrong and don't belong in the game. Yes I don't deny any of that. But I STRONGLY DISAGREE that I have used my personal word to not get lynched in a game. Please explain and cite this example because I don't think you're right in saying that I've done that.

And it wasn't a mistake. It was a conscious personal choice to do something. You can disagree with it, you can call it whatever you want. To me, it was anything but a mistake.

Look man I don't want to ruin your fun, and I respect everyone playing the game in the capacity that it's fun for them. But to me, when you said

When you know that you and I have corresponded about personal and private matters that we don't need to hash out here, that sent a message to me, that this was no longer about the game, but about every non-game situation in which you and I ever have, and ever would have to deal with involving each other. Which frankly meant there was only one course of action that being what I did. I hope this gives you some perspective to how I felt, how I feel, and how I reacted under the circumstances. Because frankly, I feel like you put me in a situation that I could not win or come out of with any outcome other than what transpired. And if it was just you and me affected by it, then I'd get over it cause I don't consider my opinions to be of any paramount importance. But I think this also affected Darq & Thawmus too and I genuinely feel bad for them given the circumstances. I don't hold any ill will towards you Rokk, but I trust that you will never do something like that with me again in a game.

I'm convinced Ouchmaker hates me.

Congratulations, Town! You pulled off a great win!

So what was the deal with Ouch?

I don't get why he was a wild card?

What deal? Wasn't he Town?

Can someone explain what happened? I didn't really follow that day.

Rokk stated he would make Silver a king if Silver wasn't a killer (as his kingmaker would kill anyone with a kill power). Rokk wanted Silver's word that Silver would use it on Thawmus. Silver gave his word.

Being a serial killer duo, Silver surprised everyone by actually killing Thawmus with the power. And of course, since he was a serial killer, Silver died from the kingmaker power as well.

the game was cool but i stayed largely unhelpful as most of the game I wasn't aware of who were guys or gals so I just randomly targeted people and chose to drink or not drink.
I liked the premise of the role though.

Cool game. Grats to the victors!

re: The Boy Blunder for not taking his vote off Immortal Raven, and then coming out with the offer to the neutrals: on the boards we asked him not to do so--that being said, if it worked it would have been glorious. Anyway, TBB: don't beat yourself up over it!

Fun game all around.

Asking "Hey, is so and so town" without any chance of interference?

That's unbalanced. Just sayin'. Especially when you ask it of someone WHO KEEPS GETTING PLACED AS ####### MAFIA!

Seriously, I should just say that every time I get a mafia alignment, I shove OOTS 4 back a week in scheduling.*

True. But I think a double random misdirect isn't NEARLY as bad.

* For those wondering, I got seized by Kingdoms of Amalur (not righteous fury at mods trying to ensure "Mal is always mafia" is actual fact instead of a tired meme)... which is a rather good game. Like Skyrim, but the combat doesn't suck. I'll try and get OOTS 4 roles sent out soon, however.

To be fair, there was chance of interference, as misdirection apparently did apply. I do agree though that it was a bit much basically having two cops. Something to ensure variety in the questions asked would have been nice.

Still, having two cops is far greater than a double misdirector.

It's like commenting that someone is playing Black Adam at 300 points while they have the old Galactus on their team.

And yes, I will be bitter, because I'm pretty darn sure the meta got me killed early in a Hawtness game, when I was finally thinking I would not die the first few nights as I always do in this series. So much for THAT...

Thing is, Silver, I have my own principles, and I understand that they don't match up to everyone else's.

I really wanted to not care. I wanted to keep my mouth shut, and just watch this go forward and for us to all just forget it.

But, frankly, I do intend to continue playing Mafia on this website. Mostly because, frankly, I'm playing as well as I ever have. I will be damned if I quit while I'm playing well. And I will not enjoy that experience so long as behavior like what I experienced in this game is acceptable. I want it made abundantly clear that I won't abide that horse####. If I have to run Vanilla games where gross Meta will get you modkilled, so be it. It has gone rampant like a weed, and it needs pulling. Even if I don't get the stem, I'm at least going to shred the damn plant, and show people what a weedless garden looks like.

Matter of fact, that's exactly what I'm going to do.