What happens if we throw Daken and his Muramasa Decapitation into the mix?

Say Daken doesn't roll doubles and still hits (kind of hard to miss 0) but does roll a 6 on his B/C/F? I would guess that not rolling doubles wouldn't matter since the damage is unavoidable and Hulk can't ignore unavoidable damage.

That is correct.

A lot of confusion would be avoided if people would:
1) Never paraphrase powers
2) Learn/pay attention to precise definitions of terms and not go based on what they think terms mean. (or should mean based on their real world definitions)

Counter powers =/= Ignoring powers
Reducing damage to 0 =/= Ignoring damage =/= Evading an attack
Taking damage =/= Dealing Damage
Penetrating damage =/= Unavoidable damage
Modified =/= Replaced
No damage =/= 0 damage

Now here's my breakdown on everything I've seen in this thread, someone please correct me if I mess something up, or if any of my definitions are not up to date. Definitions will be at the bottom for reference:


Limitless rage and Mystics
Mystics deals damage that is not an attack. Therefore Hulk's SP attempts to ignore it. However, since the damage dealt is unavoidable damage, it cannot be ignored. So damage is deal anyway.

Limitless rage and Pulsewave
Limitless rage is a game effect, so Pulsewave attempts to ignore it. However, because Limitless rage is immune to being ignored (can't be ignored) it stays in effect.

Limitless rage and Pushing damage
Pushing damage is damage dealt, so Limitless Rage attempts to ignore it. However, it cannot be ignored unless specifically stated, therefore Limitless rage grants no protection from pushing.

Now you might ask how would you word a power to exclude taking unavoidable damage/pushing damage.
"Hulk does not take damage unless it is dealt by an attack and the attack roll is doubles, but not a critical miss."
Why? Because taking damage has it's own definition as well, the actual turning of the dial that happens after damage is dealt. With this modified power, hulk would still be dealt unavoidable/pushing damage. It would simply not result in the turning of his dial.

Pulse Wave is rather long, you should look it up.

For anyone still debating the Ignores/Cannot Ignore issue, take the same argument and replace "Ignore" with "Counter".

Ignore Power Ignores damage (except for specific condition).
Can't Ignore Power cannot be Ignored.
Can't Ignore Power is not ignored by Ignore Power.

Counter Power counters power/ability.
Can't Counter Power cannot be Countered.
Can't Counter Power is not countered by Counter Power.

This mechanic is already in place. Most players seem to grasp it just fine with things like Outwit and Power Cosmic/Quintessence TA, so I'm still confused where the disconnect is between Can't Counter and Can't Ignore is.

I say if game design wrote their powers better, people would not be confused.

Having to ask whether LOF is blocked when one power says it always is and one power says never is creates problems. Not to mention counter/ignore/avoid.

The ruling is what the ruling is......but the power descriptions/interactions need better work.

Most powers are written pretty clearly. If a power say that it blocks/counters/ignores/reduces/deals/avoids anything. It does just that in any instance where it does not specifically state that it can not happen. (Damage reduction powers reduce all damage except those that are define as non-reducible, Stealth (when not ignored or countered) blocks all lines of fire except those that are defined as un-blockable.)

Yea. They really need to hire a technical writer/editor to be a part of the design process. Word choice is key and the rules *do* seem to be getting more complex with all the exceptions and non-exceptions.

Quickly to your local walmart! There are loads of English majors wasting away at checkout counters!

As a Teacher looking for a job...

I agree with this as Unavoidable damage says:
UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE: Damage dealt that can’t be
evaded, reduced, modified, ignored, or transferred to a
different character.

However If (as I'm understanding it) the ruling is that hulks special power doesn't ignore pushing damage, I disagree since pushing damage states:

PUSHING DAMAGE: Damage dealt (typically when a
character receives a second action token) that can’t be
evaded, reduced, ignored, or transferred unless a game effect
specifically says so.

Because Pushing damage leaves leeway to be evaded, reduced, ignored, or transferred due to another game effect saying it can, and it also mentions damage dealt.. Hulk must be able to ignore the damage dealt by pushing damage.

It says it has to be specifically mentioned or it cannot be ignored, just like unavoidable damage.

Example if pushing damage does not require to be mentioned in the power then it could be masterminded since mastermind states it transfers ALL damage.

Willpower Ignores it because it specifically mentions it.

That's a good point, but then raises the issue that "all" should not be included in a description anymore if "all" doesn't cover every situation.. Otherwise you contradict the definition of "all."

But I can see your point.

But I can still see the new argument now that because of POOR wording and use of the word "all" that actually encompasses "most" and not actually "all" that mastermind should be able to transfer pushing damage for the same reason.

Again.. Remove "all" from wordings if there are exceptions to all.

Good points.

Honestly, if they dropped the all:

Hulk can use toughness. Hulk ignores damage dealt to him unless it is dealt by an attack and the attack roll is doubles...

I think it would still work as ruled, and no one would question it.

MY thoughts exactly, and then the damage types that can't be ignored aren't a problem.