Yes, but it won't keep them from producing over-costed dials again =/ Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a Wrecking Crew this way, but I still don't want them unless they cost their dials appropriately. And really, there are plenty of teams of five to seven that would lend themselves very well to Team Dials =D

And with today's reveal they have cut this idea into the ground, there goes the idea that we would get R E V's of each of them, I wonder how many issues we will have with the printers not getting the stickers correct with the little numbers being the right colors...

The simple fact that someone can select a multi-base or colossal fig to pilot a vehicle or even assign a vehicle a resource dial means that they need at least some errata as that doesn't make sense. Even in a game where a lot of things don't make sense, that just stinks of oversight in the design and testing stages.

While I don't believe that vehicles as a whole are broken, I also don't believe that you even know what a vehicle is. Bevause what you describe here is not a vehicle...

Thanks. No Wizkids banner for you?

That's disheartening, actually.

Would 30 simple things still be simple? 50? 100? Where does it end?

Miller's Law says humans can only handle/process/recall 7 pieces of information at once. I respectfully say that 8 is too many simply for gameflow.

Also, if it was just this item, that would be one thing. But it's the innundation of constant multi-page mechanic rules -- gauntlet, batbelt, vehicles, team dials. This does not exist in a vacuum.

If you don't think paying 5 points to get 100 point figure is unbalanced, then I don't know what to tell you.

Can we look at it from this point of view? Let's go with the example in the website write-up. So TT uses the "team split" or whatever to drop off 3 figures that are worth 334 points, unable to drop off more because of going over 400.

So we could look at it at this point in a few different ways. We could say we almost doubled our team size -- an 83% gain in team-build points for 15 points. You are now playing with a 734 team vs. your opponents 400-point team. Or we could say you spent 15 team-build points to get an absolute gain of 334 figure-points - a return on investment of an outlandish 22x multiple or 2300%. Or we could look at it the other way and say that once we have those 334 points of figures towards our build, the team dial only cost us 66 points. Those 66 points gets you a 14-click dial that gets to make up to 4 attacks a turn. Plus, it gets to use special powers from the assert dial based on who's left on board.

Also, don't forget you get PC for the whole dial.

Also, wait, don't forget you now get SEVEN attacks a turn in a 400 point game. Seven!

I do in fact realize that we haven't seen the figure dials. But unless they are glorified pogs, I cannot see any way around it being unbalanced.

That's a possible solution. I'd just simplify the game so new players can pick it up more easily or older players can come back. You don't need complicated game mechanics to have competitive games

Very, I hate sealed because it's luck of the draw and I've had boosters just love to mock me and get big point characters and 50 points underbuilt

I maintain that the rules are simple. Hyperbole like "what if there were 50 things?!?!" isn't going to sway me.

Ironically, you posted this after three dials became known. Still think its overpowered now?

Same here. The lines would've been great for team build options, accomplish the same effect, and use an existing thing. This is new. And I don't differentiate colors well...I didn't even notice it until somebody pointed it out.

So I dislike that on two fronts now. It doesn't take away from my overall anticipation, but I do see it as where it could've been better.

It makes me sad both because what you say is true, and the while it IS impressive that the dials favor strength over length, it strikes me as a real missed opportunity for more point variance.


You're intentionally ignoring both the time and difficulty of setting up the very scenario you're talking about. All characters that you want to be 5 point additions to the team base MUST begin on the team base. Additionally, any split requires the only Power Action the Team-base can take for that turn, which means that the Titans must 1) forgo a possible attack (since they could choose to skip the power action in favor of an attack) and 2) forfiet any other use of the power action to use a power (PPB, Regen, HSS, Charge, RS, etc.). While this is less of a concern on their first turn, it still means it takes four turns to split off three members with all of the other concerns that entails [dropping them in a viable position].

On top of THAT, to actually split off a fourth character (the maximum, since three must remain) takes at least your fifth turn,and you can't simply split off the four most individually powerful titans except at the 500 point level as they are clocking in near 100 points, with Wonder Girl being a full 135, and the dials shown so far favor strength over length. Becuase of the other limitations on splitting off a member [a lower starting click if the Titans team dial has taken significant damage or are simply beginning at the 300 point level, for example] splitting is not a simple 'no brainer' even if none of the above conerns applied. Cyborg and Wonder both lose two clicks off their dial per 'rank down' the Titans face, and Raven will start on her last click if they start at or have been knocked to their Rookie/300 start line. So not only are you not getting the full points worth of the figure, you're losing their BEST clicks as a general rule. I still think using colored numbers instead of starting lines was a mistake for other reasons, but they are functionally identical as far as the team dial is concerned. You only get (arguably, rounded, and short-dial versions of) 96 or 57 points of Wonder Girl and 77 or 47 points worth of Cyborg.


Does it have powerful potential? Absolutely. But barring a ridiculous preview of the other four Titans (or another team that IS truly ridiculous) we still have the following considerations:
-They made a smart decision in that the Titans NEVER have a true 5 damage or above on their dial that can be abused. Perplex only appears when damage is 3, and must compete with the same slot as the CCE that comes up (only usable with a Power Action, so caps at one use per turn).
-The asset dial is unpredictable in addition to being limited to certain pairings since it moves by d6. As the source of some of their most useful abilties (We Go Where We're Needed, Regeneration, Outwit/Prob limitations, flight, HSS, super strength), this is vital to keeping them toned down, as well as forcing choices.
-Their only source of penetrating damage is PPB, which both requires a power action and is counter to the melee play of the team as a whole.


As I've said before, Team Dials look to be MUCH more thought out and playtested than the other game elements people have been complaining about recently.

That's fine. Hard to believe, but you simply saying "I maintain that rules are simple" isn't going to sway me.

I don't think you're kidding so I'll break it down the same way as before. I see people saying the individual figures have to be dropped a level when coming off the experienced titans base. I'm not seeing that in a write up anywhere but I'll assume it's true. Therefore I'll redo it using the top dial vet version since I don't think I could accurately break down the cost of figures not on their top click.

Looking at the individual figures' dials, I think they are fairly costed, and let's assume that's true. So we pay 465 for the red titan's dial and 5 each for the other 7 (we don't even need to see the other 4 dials). By turn 4 I have a 4 figure team that I originally paid 500 points for but is now worth 834 points. Looked at the other way, I have those 334 points of individual figures that I could've paid for at the start of the game (minus the opportunity cost of not being able to use a couple of them for 1-2 turns before they came out. I personally think this is a benefit because essentially you can carry Donna - and starfire- into battle, drop her off, and use her even though she's a flier).

So the question for me is, is the team titan's dial that is 18 clicks deep, attacks 4 times a turn, and has PC on EVERY click something worth an unreasonable amount above 166 points?

I take that back, it's not even a question, that's unequivocably worth way more than 166 points, not even taking into account the asset dial. Or the special powers. Or the trait. Or the fact that there's a 4th piece I could theoretically drop off that I haven't even seen yet. I almost don't even need to see the dial itself.

Also, it can do a kind of slow-speed HSS attack over 2 turns. First move up, attack 3 times. 2nd turn, attack 3 times, move back behind cover. Clear. repeat.


You're ignoring (I won't say intentionally, that's kind of rude because I have no idea) the fact that you aren't losing any attacks at all. The piece that just came off the team base is going to make an attack in lieu of the one the team dial gave. There's nothing I've read that says otherwise.

There is no difficultly in pulling this off at all. Nothing can stop it, all it needs is time.

Does it take 4 turns to get all 3 pieces off? Yes. As a player of the titans dial, I'm not concerned about that in the least. First of all, you can do one on the first turn (after moving the team dial first of course) so that's a freebie. If I can spend 5 pts and 1/4 of one turn (which attack is replaced by the very figure just separated) to gain 100-pt figure, I'm doing it. By turn 4-5, you get 7 attacks a turn, so who cares? That's the meat of the battle anyway.

Plus you're also ignoring the fact that the figures separated will now be able to pick up the slack on the team dial's "off" turns, when it's pushed. It gets to diversify and up its number of attacks. Instead of
4 attacks, 4 attacks, rest,
it is now
4 attacks (3 team, 1 dropoff), 4-5 attacks (3 team, 1-2 dropoffs, depending who is pushable), 1-2 attacks (depending who is pushable and who attacked last time), 5 attacks (3 team, 1 dropoff, 1 of the last 2 dropoffs), 5 attacks

This will be rife with perplex abuse, just from outside sources. Think how much more valuable 1 perplex becomes when you get to apply it to all 4 attacks! It's like getting 4 instances of perplex with each use. Perplex damage from 4 to 5, now they get 5 damage on 4 attacks, equivalent to 4 perplex on 4 separate figures on your team. Again, I haven't read anything preventing this.

I made a big mistake in my analysis. I forgot that it's not 4 attacks, it's 1 attack per 100 points. So this 166 point monster gets 5 attacks, 18 clicks, and always-PC.

So I apologize. It's worse than I said.

So, in the bolded sentence, I would assume then that if you remove a team member from the dial, if it would exceed the points limit of the team, then you can't do it.

For example: If I were running the 265 point dial with Cyborg, Raven and Wonder Girl (putting the Team Dial at 280 points) in a 300-point game, I assume I would be unable to remove any of them as that would bring the team's total above 300 points.

Am I completely off-base in assuming that this is the case? And if not, then why not change the sentence to "If removing the team member from the team would mean that the total value of removed team members exceeds the point value of the force, then the team member can't be removed." ? That would make things a lot easier. As it stands, it's actually impossible to remove a fig from a Team base as none of them are 5 points. Rules as written: one of the team members would shoot from, say 5 to 103 in Cyborg's case, meaning that NONE of the characters could be removed as they ALL wind up bringing the total cost to more than the team's point value.

Second line of the text of the very ability you're theorizing about:

The character is placed adjacent to the team on its SwitchClix base turned to the first click number color that matches the team’s current click color.

Looking at the base itself, the click colors correspond to the starting line, and these colored clix also appear on the previewed character dials.

As stated before, not only can you not attach a character the same turn as you detach one, you also forgo the one Power Action the team can use...a balancing feature compared to any figure with Multi-Attack since the team can only make more basic attacks actions or move actions but is unable to use Move-Attacks or powers like Regeneration or a Penetrating damage source more than once in a turn and makes them exclusive to each other. And your 'slow speed' HSS scenario is only a free pass at the same time when ANY character with Indomitable or Willpower could exploit the same window...or someone simply pushes.


You're right, that was a rude addition, and I apologize. As for the team losing an attack, I should have been more specific: the team DIAL loses an attack (see above), and it looks like a rare situation where a split off member's attack has the same damage potential as the team base's. Donna Charging with an object (which she MUST pick up during the Charge) is the only scenario I can come up with without seeing the other dials, although this assumes Kid Flash will not have an AV that exceeds the team's when he is detached and recognizes that Changeling will need BCF on the click he pops out on and need to get lucky. Any net action gain is belated and not as strong as the Team base itself. The upgrade from Theme Team PC to perma-PC is admittedly an upgrade, but is exclusive to Theme Team PC making it not as powerful as a flat addition and also means it can't be used multiple times in the same turn by the Team without detaching Raven.

Also, WHERE exactly is this outside perplex coming from? Cyborg only 'begins' with it by pushing to it at full or rookie value, or detaching while the team corresponds to their Experienced level. Until and unless I see Robin and Kid Flash [the other Titans members known for being Perplexing] come off as a detached figure with the power, it's going to be very hard for the Team Dial to come by and still require loss of health by a constituent member compared to their full potential. The very games we are discussing leave no room for outside figures unless you leave off detachable members AND dig back to the Golden Age [or have someone like a Madame Web] for cheap Perplex. Even this kind of source is limited to 1. In HIGHER point games, you begin to look at other high-cost figures who CAN match the Titans' output even without perplex...hell, even at the point levels we're talking about, there are multiple Colossals that still have room for support figures the Team Bases WON'T, which can even be longer and/or stronger dialed and continue using Colossal Fortitude and STILL use aforementioned supporting cast. I'm also assuming that you simply made a mistake by implying that the 300 point dial has all the strengths you're talking about the 400 and 500 point dial having (the additional attacks and dial length, for example).



In a FIVE HUNDRED POINT OR HIGHER GAME, of which the dial gets no support outside detached figures, because the precise wording is not of the game's build total (this never appears in Working Together), but of the TEAM BASES's (the 'it' referred to) point value. In a 300 points game (or played at said in a higher point game), the team still only gets three actions or attacks, not more! In the end, most of arguments rely on inaccurate or incomplete knowledge of what the dial can actually do, but also ignore the point values at which it is being played which directly affect other legal figures (the even scarier Colossals, for one). And no, I'm not even really considering the glut of Impervious that other figures of similar point value have as the Titans can Outwit that unless said figure has Quintessence or Power Cosmic, though I am certainly considering the higher AVs and Damage Values

Most of your concerns are exactly the sorts of things I would be afraid of a team dial doing WITHOUT having read its rules AND by a good deal of cherry-picking the other figures that I'm considering alongside them.

Huge multi paragraph essays flying back and forth about how these things do and don't work. Team bases are certainly shaping up to be simple indeed :-P

I have to say my very first reaction to seeing this was, "Ain't nobody got time for that!" I'll give it a couple more reads to see if I can wrap my head around everything, but I am getting a little worn out of the new mechanics that seemingly accompany every new set now, and the "Don't like it, don't buy it" argument only works until I have to sit down across from one.