Ok, from a clarification from Draddog, Grand Alliances do not transfer faction abilities. The only benefit is the ability to make formation. That's fine by me, since I didn't want an BR units stealing our abilities. Our elites are Awesome, theirs are eh. :)

@MuppetWarrior & White Knight

First, let me say this just so it's understood that I'm posting this fully respecting your opinions and feelings about this alliance. Also, you may know that I had previously posted a BR/Liao fluff logical army in this thread - unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to play test it.
Knowing what now can be done when these two factions working together can lead to more victories as we can now fill in areas that are lacking in House Liao and vice versa for that matter. Once AoD is released, no more mainstays for BR when it comes to restricted tourneys. NO Stefani, OEJ, Kenneth, Basil, JI100's!! etc....
We all know what's lacking with House Liao - speedy things, an attack VTOL, evade SE, cheap command units. Granted House Liao makes up for it with higher defenses and higher damage output. But, I just ask you to think outside the box for one moment and imagine what can BR units bring to that 3'x3' square that will help House Liao win more matches than it normally would. Hey, we all play for fun, but it's a lot more fun when we're winning.
I'm all stoked that the Grand Alliance mechanic will allow me to play both of my favorite factions together.
...Imagine...just imagine....

Ixnaydude

@Ixnaydude: I have no problem with the Grand Alliance. The only MW book I have read is 'By Temptations and By War' (being a Liao centered book), and enjoyed it quite a bit. I have nothing against Banson and his scheming and manipulations. It's just as a faction they never appealed to me, and certain aspects of their design paradigm go against my tastes (most notably the very short dials).

When I design my armies, they are faction pure with no mercs. The Alliance is kind of along the same lines. As such, I'll have a hard time integrating them into my forces, the same with the Gunslingers. Maybe I will, and maybe I wont, but it's all about my personal tastes and 'honor' (yay scrubbie me :)). I don't judge or bemoan others for their own tastes and playstyles, and I will continue to give constructive comments to Allied forces, and cheer at any Liao victory, alone or with allies.

I am happy for you, and all the other Banson's players out there that get to expand into the Chancellor's armed forces. More Liao players is always a good thing. I will continue to play in a way that challenges me, and that I enjoy. As of right now, that's still with a faction pure force. If that changes in the future, I'll let you know. :)

I will be interested in seeing what Faction Abilities BR will get from their faction pride card, although I suppose that you wont be able to use those with Liao forces in your army. Can't have too many faction abilities now, can we?

Bayin Killer Clowns(LE Combat Eng I think)
El Sprint VTOL

Liao will stand to benefit with some cheap command units. Not to mention a little first strike using the Sprint with say, the Sniper Team?

I'll definitely be taking this into account in my army builds. It also helps that BR is another of my favorite factions!:grin:

@Ixnaydude
While I'm not ecstatic about the Grand Alliance, that's just little ol' my opinion - I'm glad that some of the regs on this thread are stoked, and I look forward to seeing some of the forces and tactics that get adapted to suit this emerging situation.

When it comes down to it, in the grand scheme of things, this is really just a drop in the ocean, and no matter how bad my day at work was, this IS just a game, and it's good to see people looking at the positive aspects. ;)

I wonder whether the two factions with existing faction abilities will get faction pride cards? If so, will they be as much benefit? If not, will there be a point to playing faction pure Liao and CJF (apart from the fact we do it already and those of us who do, do so for the fun of it!)?

I'll look forward to next week with interest....

....mumblemumblemumble...wannaLiaoQuad...mumblemumblemumble... :grin:

Hmmmm..... BR Sprints + Baylin's Killer Clown Combat Engineers, + Liao artillery = Turtle arty pounding madness with the new arty rule coming into effect. Pogwarrior madness. Still, I will try to be faction pure without mercs.

Besides the Sprint and Killer Clowns, BR brings in their own Glory FST and Behemoth. Liao being a bit light on heavy tanks with AP, it's a hole that can be filled. Extra command is always good, but I have both the Sprint and Killer Clowns are a bit hard to come by. BR might get a nice attack VTOL.

Talking about living vicariously through others... :)

Just some ideas:

BR Raider MKII + Liao Shockwave = Cheap Poor Man's Bounty Hunter at 302.

They also have the best Fa-Shih BA in the game and boy will the Fa-Shih be ever so much more important with the advent of Assault Orders.

BR adds whole board mobility to Liao.

@WhiteKnight: If you want a Liao Quad, you might have the chance to settle for that Quad Assault mech they previewed for us. I heard that Dean (last year's world champ) likes Bannson's Raiders as his faction. So who knows? Maybe we'll have some access through the faction he picks.

@yogo_rendo: I think White Knight was longing for an actual Liao quad, not an allied one (I know I am). Also, as long as Dean is a Gunslinger, his mech will be a 'merc'. But, all Gunslingers seem to be able to 'join' any faction, so he could join up with Bansons, or Liao, for that matter.

I disagree, as politely as possible :)

First of all, the BR Fa Shih may be some people's cup of tea, but I've always prefered ours because it's tougher, has the potential to whack certain targets for 3 damage and when it dies, there is a good chance it'll heal another Liao unit close by. The BR one might be faster and cheaper, but the BA I send into close quarters with a big mech had better be capable of taking a hit - BR ones don't do that for me. :ermm:

Second, I already HAVE whole board mobility with the CCAF - Shuns and Yu Huangs (if I have to) - besides, the Targe isn't exactly slow, now, is it?

(Truth is, I'm probably just a little sore about the set composition still, so while I'm sure BR can add a dimension to our game play - I know that even I have considered almost possibly getting a flight of BR Sprints, not for the mobility, but for the Command SE - it's just that at the moment, Bannson's just aren't going to be my cuppa tea. Don't worry, I'll grow out of it, but when you spend your day teaching 8 year-olds, you pick up one or two bad habits.... :grin: )

And yes, I meant a Liao Quad, as in lean, mean, four-legged and especially GREEN, not some wishy-washy cream and blue! :devious:

;)

BR Fa Shih vs Liao Fa Shih is totally dependent on the stratgey planning that goes into army design. In a match with duelling arty or fast pieces the BR Fa Shih Sprint drop is the best. Its got the longest drop and go range and makes it hard for an opponent to get away. The Liao Fa Shih is better midfield with other Liao units in support to take advantage of its faction abilities.

My current army is:
Andrzej
PDS
Sniper Team
GDSA
3x Trackbikes
3x ATVs
450pts

My last constructed tournament, I went 3-0, 0-3, 3-0. What I've found is that I need to screen the PDS a lot better, can't damage hardened armor(Posted about that before), and feel naked against VTOLS. Anyway, I've made a modification (I may be rehashing this particular army) and I'm asking, humbly, for pointers for each army.

New army:
Andrzej
Arrow IV
Merc Zahn
Merc Balac
3x Trackbikes
3x ATVs
449pts

This 'new' army resolves all of my concerns with the 'old' army. No need for screening with the arty drop. Now I have a very respectable atk VTOL myself, and most importantly can hurt those with hardened armor.

Comments, pointers, suggestions please.

Thanks!
Ixnaydude

@ixnaydude: You've given up board control for damage output. While the PDS can't knock through hardened or reactive armored units, it can keep three different groups on the move (unless, of course, your opponents entire force is armored). And it can threaten across the board. With it's large minimum arty range, you want to keep the fight at least mid-field, if not in your opponents DZ.

Switching to the A-IV force, you are pulling back your engagement zone closer to your DZ. And with the arty drop, it becomes that much more order inefficient. But, with that one pog, you can definitely make something move. You might want to try and find some command to put into the second force, although doing that would break up the cohesion that that particular army currently has. Tough call. How much are the Clowns? If 12 ish, you can swap them for an ATV, and get the potential order there.

I wouldn't say that the first army is naked against VTOL's. It's naked vs Republic Balac's and DF Skadi's. Other VTOL forces can be pushed to the point that Andrzej can get in a shot and cripple one.

The second army does create one more threat point to use against your opponent. I think either can do well (the first one is evidenced by your record). Just watch out for AA with the second force.

Well, it all depends on you're view of Anti-Armour Artillery - personally, the thing I love about the PDS is that it DOESN'T ignore armour, making it grat for operating your own Hardened and Reactive Armour Fiends underneath an umbrella of fire. Given that you have a Damage 6 Weapon in the form of Slappy, I'm surprised you're finding difficulty - maybe the first army is actually very good, but you just need to adjust your game plan to deal with Tough foes??? Just a thought, that's all... :)

VTOL vulnerability is one I can feel for, so I'd be looking to make your Arty units more solid thanks to some AA support. If you take this line, an Arty Drop really seems a tad pricy, so here's my take on a potential force...

Myrmadon Lance
:^^^: Andrzej Czupek Yu Huang 239 points
:^: Paladin Defense System 82 points
:^^^: MHI Defense AA Tank 63 points
:^: Grey Death Scout Armour 17 points
4 x :^^: ATV/MGCs 12/48 points
450 points

I've never really felt the need for a Liao Attack VTOL, as long as we can counter an opponent's, the CCAF should stick to what it does best. In fact, if I were to go that way a little more, I'd go as far as this...

Perseus Lance
:^^^: Andrzej Czupek Yu Huang 239 points
2 x :^: Shun Transport VTOL 44/88 points
2 x :^: Grey Death Scout Armour 17/34 points
2 x :^^: Sniper Teams 22/44 points
3 x :^^: Infiltrator MK1 Battle Armour 15/45 points
450 points

Dump the Artillery completely and stay mobile - the SniperDrop gives you an interesting option versus ranged targets with Slappy, while the GDSA can cause directive harm to anything you'd care to attack, anywhere on the board. The Mark Ones might not be everyone's cup of tea, but they have a significant advantage over ATVs in that they can attempt to capture stuff. Also keep in mind that the Shun actually packs a semi decent weapon, useful for picking on Vehicles and Mechs with lower DV.

Sorry if this army is a little off tack from your intention, but I saw a potential there that had to be explored - Go for the throat! :devious: