Whatever. Get off your Bat-fan high horse.

Cap's attitude in JLA/Avengers was affected by the cross-universe stuff. That's not his normal way of being.

Yep same with Superman. They were effected by the event going on because they were what each universe looked up to.

I'll get a piece of this vitriolic nonsense.....

It never made sense to me how Batman could be argued to take Cap in a straight up fight. Superhuman combat expert versus an extremely physical, albeit HUMAN combat expert.

Cap wins.

Two words: Grant Morrison.

Enough with the "Batman can beat Captain America" talk.

Not only did a simple Predator put Batman in a FULL BODY CAST, when Batman fought Grendel, who is not even superhuman by any means, they could only fight to a standstill.

I do recall Batman going up against Judge Dredd. How did that turn out? Well check it out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../blog/jog1.jpg

It wasn't even a fight. It still makes me laugh my ### off.

Batman is such a joke. His arch nemesis is an insane clown who kills his friends left and right and then laughs in his face. The only reason I liked the The Dark Knight (movie) was because the whole movie was about how Batman fails at saving his girlfriend and his friends.

I think part of the issue is Cap's power level. I keep hearing "peak human level" and I thought I remembered him purging the Super Soldier Serum from himself years ago, but in this thread there are examples of a powered-up Cap. I'm not sure which is canon. That Cap that can knock down that door takes Batman. But that's way above "peak human." No non-super human could do that.

Ever read the "X Trilogy" version of Cap that Jim Krueger and Alex Ross wrote?

That Cap could beat Galactus in a hand to hand combat contest!

sol's comic book history lesson for today -

Cap had to purge the Super Soldier during the 'City of Ice' storyline back in the early 90s. For a time, he didn't have it in his system, and went on to have to answer the question 'what am I without the serum?'. My commentary on that later. However, in a few short issues (3 or 4 tops), Cap learned that the serum, being a literal part of his body at this point, had replicated itself in his bloodstream, thus continuing the benefits of the original application -- peak human strength stamina speed, etc. that he pretty much doesn't have to necessarily work to maintain.

The super soldier serum has long been a thorn in my side in terms of its use with Captain America over the years. One, according to Captain America Comics #1, the serum was to maximize not only the physical, but the mental as well. It has rarely, if ever, been shown to enhance Cap mentally. Two, it was really intended (and this is more opinion than fact, but not completely baseless taken in context of the original stories) to be a one shot deal to explain HOW there is a Captain America. In the 1940's comics, it is never mentioned outside of the origin story and any retelling of said story. It's not even mentioned in "Captain America Lives Again" or any story thereafter for YEARS, until somebody decided they had to explain how Steve was frozen in ice. Stan Lee wrote it pretty much as a 'happy accident'. Steve has said in those early issues following his return that 'the price for his physique is constantly having to maintain it through training and excerise'....paraphrased.

So, so that Captain America could be a perfect human, he got an innoculation of a one-shot super drug, which has always been more 'realistic' to me than a guy so obsessed with the murder of his folks that he goes out and merely trains himself to be the physical AND mental equivalent of Captain America. Batman is simply Superman without actual super powers. And yes, Batman is considered peak human in all ways that matter. He's not Daredevil with a lot of money.

Bruce has often been described as an Olympic level athlete in peak human condition. Many people are stating that Steve is at peak human levels, but I have seen Captain America do things physically that Batman can't, so from what I can tell he is more super human than peak human. I have seen Cap do things that no human even at peak levels ever could and although it is a comic book and different writers have their own interpretations of characters I would classify Cap's abilities as beyond human.

If you were to drop them both into a room and have them fight, then Cap is going to win. He is physically superior and Batman would wear down before Cap did. It's the same reason that Batman would lose against someone like Deathstroke who is physically superior and has decent fighting skills. Although Captain America is a very skilled and accomplished fighter, I believe that Bruce is even more so. Bruce traveled the world and learned from the best of each discipline. It wasn't just one teacher. It was many and each one was the best at what they taught. It was the same with the other skills he learned to become Batman. Bruce is more skilled in martial arts and other fighting disciplines, but Cap is not far behind. Cap does have more fighting experience than Batman does which does count for a lot. Even though I believe that Bruce has more martial arts skills than Steve he is not going to win against Cap in a straight up fight. Cap's fighting skills combined with his enhanced abilities would be too much for Batman, but I don't see the fight going down that way either.

The outcome largely would depend on exactly where they are fighting, what time it is, is it dark or light, what is the terrain. Even though it was a joke of a story, the Marvel vs. DC comic had Cap acknowledge that Batman was in his element in the sewers and it worked to his advantage. I believe that Batman could win by using the terrain and shadows to his advantage combined with the small arsenal of weapons and gadgets in hit utility belt. He has taken down bigger opponents using the same tactics and while Steve is highly intelligent, Bruce is smarter. This would be a very long and drawn out battle that could go either way. Batman's utility belt is a huge advantage in a fight like this because he has plenty of things that he can use to distract and disorient Cap while striking from the shadows or right up close.



Yea, because that worked so well the other times they met and Batman kicked his ###. Also, how is that crime rate in New York looking these days after old Frank has been operating there for years?

Deathstroke surpasses Cap in those departments. Also, in the last two encounters with Deathstroke, Batman walked away the victor. He did have help from Robin and Nightwing the last time though. When Bruce tried to go up against Slade without a plan he got his ### kicked, but Deathstroke admitted that Batman was better.

Yes, he went up against a super strong alien with superior technology that cloaks itself and can see his body heat. After he physically went up against a Predator and survived what happened next? Or even better, what happened the next two times he went up against them?

I haven't read the Batman/Grendel book in years, but wasn't that at the very beginning of Batman's career and he still fought him to a standstill.

The Batman/Judge Dredd books were horribly written, but I do recall Batman throwing Dredd an ### kicking as well.

I'm sure with very little digging, I can pull up plenty of instances with pictures that show Cap getting his ### kicked and I'm sure that not all of them are by superior opponents either.


Prometheus was a character created to take down the entire Justice League that studied them for years before going up against them. He beat Batman the first time around, but didn't fair to well the second time. Prometheus went up against an opponent with superior physical abilities thinking he was just a regular guy like Batman. You can have all the skills in the world, but if your opponent is faster, stronger and more durable than you, then you are going to lose. Also, as lame as it all was, the guy that Cap fought was Prometheus's side kick because the real Prometheus was left catatonic after his second fight with the JLA.

I don't remember Nightwing beating Bruce, but I would like to read the issues where it happened, so if you can let me know what they were I would appreciate it. The Bronze Tiger beat Batman once with a single kick before Batman was established as more of a fighter. I believe that Batman even says that he is more a detective than a fighter just before he gets knocked down. The Bronze Tiger is a better skilled fighter than Batman though and would win in a fight of martial arts skills against him. Deathstroke has already been explained. Bane wore out Bruce before he broke him and their encounters since have been in Bruce's favor.

Again, I am sure I can find plenty of examples of Steve getting his butt kicked just as someone can find for Batman. If they won every single fight, then it would be very boring.

Exactly! The Punisher is one of the biggest POS characters out there and he is only a step above the common thug. Batman out classes him in every way. That is why Bruce kicked his ### twice and Az-Bats once.

Again, exactly correct. People are taking that conversation to mean that Cap would win the fight, but that was not it at all. Batman knew from a few kicks and punches that Cap could beat him or he could beat Cap, but it would have taken a very long time and they could have put the time to better use.

Well horribly written or not (your opinion), DC still gave it the go ahead and it was printed. Even DC knows Batboy isn't all that.

As far as Batman giving Dredd a beating, cite your sources please. I have the book in front of me and Batman gets two hits into Dredd before Dredd kicks Batman off of him. Dredd then gives the orders "Subdue him" and a group of Judges give Brucie the Rodney King treatment. If it wasn't for Judge Anderson Bruce would have done 20 years in an Isocube.

How about we use a little logic here.
Predator beats Batman.
Arnold and Danny Glover beat Predator.
Captain America would beat either Arnold or Danny.

Captain > Arnold > Predator > Batman.

Nuff' said.

A close one, but Batman's utility belt has "Anti-Captain America Bat Spray" in it along with a device that can destroy the shield.

At the end of the fight, both of them will be battered and bruised, but Captain America is the one who's still standing. All those who chose to oppose his shield must yield.

yes because a guy that owned Superman on several occasions, that beat Flash seeing that shouldn't even be possible, a guy that beat Martian Manhunter, a guy that is the ONLY one to ever dodge Darksied's Omega Beams really sucks that bad. Spider-man owned Cap. Cap is nothing without a shield.

When did Spider-Man 'own' Cap? You must be talking about Civil War. Captain America beat up Spider-Man in his own book back in the 80's.