It's impressive in the sense that even non-comics fans will recognize them.

Lex Luthor - "Who's that bald guy?"
Circe - "Is that a drag queen?"
Red Skull - "Is that...is that a Nazi? WTF?"
Loki - "He has a funny hat and talks funny."

As a non-comics fan, I can comment here.

Lex Luthor - yes
Circe - who?
Red Skull - again, who?
Loki - Norse Mythos, not a comic book villian

I specifically used Scott because it's well known around here that I'm a big fan of Mr. Summers (enough that get even tried to meta-kill me in one game because he was -so- positive I had to be the one who would pick Cyclops )...and I agree with many of your points, except that the majourity of it has been fairly recent development (besides the ongoing Jean romance angst and "Can't risk taking off my glasses.").

The PR line from Marvel was that the X-Men were always "flawed outcasts" but taking a look at the early X-Men comics, other than the PR push and the occassional "We don't want help from mutants...but we wouldn't know you were mutants as opposed to, say, someone like an Avenger if you didn't boast about it." you didn't really see it. They were just "normal teenagers" personality-wise. Heck, Jean used to be a fashion model and clothes designer - she wasn't exactly "suffering for being a mutant" (as opposed to Dazzler in her GN decades later) or having personality flaws that made her life tough.

Basically the big difference between DC and Marvel on the "reality factor" was Stan Lee. Stan Lee is up there with PT Barnum and the other great salesmen of the years - he knew how to spin a product and he did it damned good. He knew they had to differentiate their company somehow and he nailed it. DC, frankly, never had anyone in his class for that.

I don't find that to be impressive.

I think that was the point...

I excluded Batman, because in my mind, he is the exception that proves the rule. The initial point I took from Rokk's starting post was to focus on why Superman is relevant (or not), so focusing on his problems - a lack of an impressive rogue's gallery - makes sense to me when you take away Batman (and, I suppose The Flash) from the equation, because their whole setup as a character forces their villains to be more robust

Whatevs, I consider it writer's laziness. The writer's of all those subsequent arcs have even said "Oh, another Crisis? We need to have The Flash... for symmetry!"

*shrug* Again, it falls under the same trap with Superman in that you know he's never in any real danger. Or shouldn't be.

No, he's the guy who works for the organization with an octopus symbol (Hydra)...because Marvel has to be able to market world-wide and so the Nazis keeps getting replaced by Hydra as the group that Cap and the rest of the world banded together to fight.

(Seriously - this Hydra replacement thing fast became distasteful to me.)

This is funny on so many levels.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Yeah, I'd say they're recognizable, not impressive.

Disagree. The big difference between DC and Marvel on the "reality facotr" was that Marvel comics took place in New York City. That was huuuuuge.

Just so that everybody knows, I just sent off the order for the dice. I ordered at least 1 pair extra of each die, so if you missed out, let me know.

To all the naysayers: I call (box office) scoreboard!

#allidoiswin

We've been over this, and I still completely agree with you.

Rank Title (click to view) Studio Lifetime Gross / Theaters Opening / Theaters Date
1 The Dark Knight WB $533,345,358 4,366 $158,411,483 4,366 7/18/08
2 Spider-Man Sony $403,706,375 3,876 $114,844,116 3,615 5/3/02
3 Spider-Man 2 Sony $373,585,825 4,166 $88,156,227 4,152 6/30/04
4 Spider-Man 3 Sony $336,530,303 4,324 $151,116,516 4,252 5/4/07
5 Iron Man Par. $318,412,101 4,154 $98,618,668 4,105 5/2/08
6 Iron Man 2 Par. $312,433,331 4,390 $128,122,480 4,380 5/7/10
7 Batman WB $251,188,924 2,201 $40,489,746 2,194 6/23/89
8 Men in Black Sony $250,690,539 3,180 $51,068,455 3,020 7/2/97
9 X-Men: The Last Stand Fox $234,362,462 3,714 $102,750,665 3,690 5/26/06
10 X2: X-Men United Fox $214,949,694 3,749 $85,558,731 3,741 5/2/03

#1, baby!

I don't even remember which side of the discussion I was taking anymore. I think ... I think I'm just trollin' for the sake of trollin' now.

Yeah I agree, I just took it with the mention of Emma that you still saw them more that way. They didn't really have significant character flaws till they had established personas and then someone came and started changing things.