I AM a consistent winner.

and my armies are very all round.........

ah well sunday we will see.

Bit of a theoretical here, but one I think has a solid basis. Also, just shamelessly bumping this thread :P

We all pretty much know that in 2008, Wizkids is going to release a new base set a'la Age of Destruction, with rewritten rules, to revitalize the game and get people's interest back up. Nobody has a clue what these rules are though...except I figure we do, and I was wondering at the opinions of the other strategy nuts who frequent this thread as to the impact they may have on the game.

I'm speaking of A.) the new melee combat rule introduced into Solaris, where close combat attacks with a non-CC weapon deal half damage, and the more important rules regarding tanks/infantry which have been played in tournaments before, and will be played again in the upcoming "Crusader's War" scenario. These rules allow tanks/infantry to push endlessly, suffering only a minorish defensive penalty for being 'pushed', and with no restrictions on how often these units can push.

it is the common consensus of most intelligent players in our venue, including the battlemaster, that the multiple tournaments running the new push rules are dry-testing those rules for possible use in the 2008 Rewrite, and I'm betting dollars to dimes that the CC damage one will be there as well.

Now, obviously the pushing rules are highly beneficial to most everything not on a 'Mech dial - I can see the tankdroppers squealing already - but honestly, I don't see tankdrop as being the only real use for the new rules. Instead, I'm foreseeing a bit of a return of the CBA Swarm armies from back in Dark Age. Run a unit of five CNC Clan BA and, without the push damage worrying you, you can chase a 'Mech into shutdown without much trouble, given speed. Harassing infantry no longer have to worry about whether to push or not, sacrifice that potentially vital click. They can just get on up in people's grills and cause mayhem. Assuming artillery is gone in the Rewrite, I'm thinking that it's the infantry suckers who'll get the biggest boost from this.

Especially with the new CC rules on top of it. With non-CC weapon damage cut in half in close, things like Nova Cats will be horribly vulnerable to infantry that never have to rest. A Nova Cat will no longer be able to take out a typical ATV in one shot, let alone deal with a formation of fighting infantry parked on its feet. Energy 'Mechs in general would be in serious trouble without either ballistic support or infantry screens of their own.

Excluding other radical rules shifts, of course, I'd say that if these rules held true, infantry would be a much more consistent and credible threat in the 2008 game, and as a result we'll likely see an upswing in virtually-ignored Anti-Personnel gear and multi-targeting pilot abilities, as well as just good old-fashioned multi-target ballistics. Energy 'Mechs will take a bit of a hit - I doubt that we'll see many dual CNCNC/Hyperlaser armies anymore when a single infantry formation could harass them into the ground.

And, of course, things like DF DI Schmitts and WH Kelswas taking those godawful shots every turn will be harmful. My venue has forever dubbed the new pushing rules "Richard's Tank Rules" for the evilness of seeing his four WH Kelswa bunched up in formation, ready and waiting to devour anything that closes in, every turn...-_-

I personally wouldn't like to see that melee rule, it would screw some units.

Claw would be boned with useless brawling.

Stormwinds ability would be ####

Thug would be useless in melee.


I could maybe live with it if they worded it so that units w/o the melee symbol on the dial had their damage halved in melee so that Thug and claw wouldn't be screwed.

I second that thought! It would make more sense if they would do it that way.

I too am anticipating that storylines have been used to preview coming rule changes. Giving infantry and vehicles no push damage could be countered by another storyline - no heat for walking mechs. Mechs would be able to work that much longer before they have to cool.

Also, Mechs with Melee damage type don't halve CC damage. Only Mechs without the Melee damage type halve CC damage, which seems reasonable to me.

it would also be sound to have the "damage dealing step" in the order phase to resolve simultaneously just like in S7. this would level the playing field regardless of army-build and would even speed up the games. this would mean not to upset the balance of the current game dynamics where the 'mechs are, and should be, king of the battlefields. imagine what would happen to most 'mechs when tanks and infantry can easily push without penalty. indeed, we'll be seeing the return of the darkage tank drops.

also, i have a gut feel that they are going to re-word the application of modifiers in such a way that it shall refer to the attacker more instead of the target. (i.e.) in an assault order, instead of the target getting a +1 to defense, its the attacker that gets a -1 to its attack value or, in a charge, instead of the target getting the +2 defense modifier, it will be the attacker that gets the (-2) attack modifier. this would limit the extent at which we abuse "merc pride" since it would only primarily affect pilot&gear(evade and camouflage) modifiers on the target and not affect/utterly disregard the basic "dynamics/mechanics" of the gaming system itself such as charging through walls, indirect shooting or capture attacks/attempts.

any thoughts?

oh, and yes, im with this ruling too.

NO SIMULTANEOUS TURN RESOLUTION IN COMBINED ARMS, DAGNABBIT >_> How many times are people gonna suggest this? yeah, it kinda works in Solaris, but Solaris was built for it. GROWL...

As for tanks/infantry pushing endlessly, I don't see that being any threat to the BattleMech's role as the dominant force of the battlefield. 'Mechs can still run, Charge, DFA, and most important of all they can assault, and with pilots/gear, most decent 'Mechs are easily able to outfox a lot of drop armies. If for no other reason than pilot abilities, 'Mechs will always have a place. And it won't require simultaneous resolution to work out, either.

Anyways. Sorry for the mini-rant, just get sick of hearing about simultaneous resolution in combined-arms all the time...

well, to begin with, not everybody is as well informed as you are.

second, would you care to post the reason why it isn't so (SIMULTANEOUS TURN RESOLUTION)?

. . .or better yet, could you direct me to a link where wizkids officially announced why they didn't want that so?

would appreciate it.

thanks.

*Sighs* I'm just saying, Arcjester, that simultaneous turn resolution in the main game would be a staggering turn-off to most. A lot of players in this game enjoy playing games of maneuver and positioning instead of the bloody battles of attrition large-scale Solaris would be. However, since Solaris VII has been stated to be an alternate game format, I really doubt that they'll switch the whole dang game to hexmaps and damage dice. Especially since they're bound to lose...probably over half their player base if they do.

100% agree with LaserLight here. Simultaneous damage resolution is all about attrition. AoD is about maneuvering and tactics. Solaris is about who can take a hit the best and who is hardest to hit.

They both have their merits, but bringing in simultaneous damage resolution to AoD would basically kill the game for most of the playerbase, methinks.

At first I also thought simultaneous damage in regular mech would be a good idea, and posted that on wizkids. I got some good feedback as to why it isn't such a good idea and tested the theories in some home matches. I found that

1. It doesn't work with the size of the armies and large numbers of units we use.
2. It does remove the maneuvering and tactics that we play the game for.

As far as the other rules changes that may happen, the best suggestion for infantry and vehicles so far has been that you get the second order token with out taking pushing damage but then you have to clear. It gives them some more flexibility without over powering them.

The Dutch nationals.

Preparation, i always start with that but well there was little preparation to begin with it was annouced 3 weeks in advance hardly enough time to properly prepare.

At the time I was playing with

TrueGrit
Alpha+2+2+1+IT
Goshawk CJF +2+2+1+Risc Overcharger
Goshawk CJF +2+1+0+Silly gear to make 600.

I think if there was a worlds I would have played it there. I decided i woudnt play it as it is vwery hard to make it work against armies which use support.

All at my venue do....

Metagame enviroment

In Holland there are not all that many players as compared to Germany or the US. However in 2 locations we have established extremely high level of play. This is centred on Ian from Arnhem and myself playing in Delft. As such the overall level of play is in my opinion lower and must be catered for different army types that you can meet.

Now for the new pieces the only new piece was the Zqueb set the champion set.

I looked at them all but neither of them sit my standards. Also Jack was never a big problem over here. People dealt with it tacticaly more so then changing armies to battle it. As such the only intersting pilot that comes from that set is the medium +2+2+1 pilot.

I looked at Hammerfell and was tempted to play it.

BR FP
Hammmerfell+one eye+Coolant pod
x-axis+repair+neuman
3 Battle armor worth 60 points.

In the end i played my allround solution to everything.

1 Alpha+dejesus+it
CJF Goshawk+2+2+1 Pilot+Risc Overcharger
HD Bishop
>HS TTL
>HS TTL
>HK CT
2 HD Purifier

The Purfiers simply have more life then 3 atv's for the same price.

True Grit to kill Merc and BR FP.
1st match vs Brinxter.

He played his SAD+Magister army very competently ussullay he puts in water he didnt bother with that now. He played aggressive and after me missing a MFDA on Magister I was a bit in trouble. In the end i managed to kill magister now he can kill the Goshawk as his Magister is more expensive. Brinxter tried hard taking risks with SAD but coudnt kill enough points and i won the Match.

Using cheaper pieces that can do the the job is one of the main reason i keep coming back to the same pieces.

2nd Match

I played vs and gambling army so to say. It was the blue madcat that on a 4-6 can shoot through buildings and was equipped with a risc hyperlaser. So it need a 4-6 first then a 4-6 again. Still the threat was a 21 inch 7 damage shoot. So we danced at extreme ranges i used my TTL's and hit his Jackalope thumper who with 4-6 has a 2nd order. As i said a gambling army. He couldnt get any breaks on his army and after i destroyed the Jackalope it was easily cruising.

3th Match vs Ian.

Ian chooses to use a one trick pony army.

He played
WH Mjolnir+Kelly
CJF Goshawk+BAP
RD Solitaire+Grapple
HK Slyph
2 WH Gossamers

Basicly it wants to base something once then move in on something exposed. By keeping my Alpha shielded it shoudnt be a problem i realized that when i saw his army. I played an Urban he played an PC that makes non BA infantry to take damage. My mistake was I was planning on moving my TTL's up so i could bombard Ian but I just unloaded them so i could repair them as such I made space for them to soon. Ian immediately realized my mistake and came in full bore.

He defeated me handsomely.

I still say you can play that army once and it shoudnt have worked vs me. I was hoping for a rematch.

4th Match
Slayer+0+2+2
Warwulf +1+2+1
TGR drop

Another mirrormatch type long ranges lots of manouvering. I tried to manouever for a MDFA he crit hit me and hit me again forcing me to lose JJ so I went for VC 3 with the Goshawk. Alpha Hit the wulfen crippling it. It was a tough close match i won barely.




Top 4

I know played Liam upcoming talent from my venue 16 or 17 year old kid with a lot of hart.
He is the main reason I play True Grit, he played Shiro+WH Vixen and a TTL drop with 3 ATV's. He played it smart, he parked in a H-building and let me come afterall I was the one with True Grit and he made me pay for it.

I saw 1 opportunity, i parked my Goshawk in the rear arc of his Bishop, then charged it. Alpha finished it of. Unfornatly my Goshawk went Shutdown in the proces I tried to safe it with Alpha scoring VC3 having VC1 at the time he had VC2 as my Goshawk was salvage. But He killed something in time and i lost.

My solution was brilliant my execution was sloppy.

So i ended up in the “small” final for 3th and 4th place which i conceded as i dont care much for prizes but the title :-p

I had good fun, I wish there where more large tournements in the Netherlands but i doubt that will ever happen.

I dont think much can be learned from this to be honest but people seem to think we in Holland do something ok.

I think Should have played the Hammerfell army just to do something different, because for the last 2 maybe 3 years I am playing the same army.

Alpha
TTL drop
ATV's

And something ranging from Phoenix hawk 1 towards BR soli's and with Jack. And Lately CJF Goshawks.

I think we need new pieces :-p

Well i will wait for 2008.......

Good luck all with Solaris etc.

Regards
Elite130

Frankly, I'm more than a bit shocked you even considered a three-Mech army with no support. Yami/WH Vixen doesn't do much to stoke my fire, but I can see why it's competitive.

I like the base of Ian's army, though I would have ditched the Gossamers toward Double Rate on Kelly and more harassers.

Thanks for the report, old friend. :)

Gah, double post.