I've been saying this FOREVER

I am saying it is ridiculous to compare them to colossals when talking about GAME BALANCE because colossals are the most crazyily overpowered, untested, and not-fun figure to play (either with or against).

you're still not understanding the mechanic. You're getting the team dial, worth, if we're going with 300 point total, is 265 points. On top of that, you add in 3 figure (attached at the start) for 5 points each. For each of those 5 points, you get the full version of the figure if you give it action to detach (which means you can still make 2 attack the turn you detach, and then the detaching figure attacks for total of 3).

So you're essentially doubling the size of your team (due to the caveat that you can't separate more points than the team is worth) - 600 points fielded and only 300 points paid.

So re: "then you're paying 300 points for a 300 point team, which will include 3 pieces, which is normal" -- You're paying 300 points, and getting 4 pieces once you detach -- but you're getting 5 attacks a turn (you still get 3 from the dial for one power action then 2 more from detached figures up to the 300 point game limit). This is not "normal".

You're not getting the "full version" of a detached figure at 300 points...

4 figures come in on their second-to-last click.
1 figure comes in on her last click.
2 figures come in with three clicks of life.


Yes, it's good to get them added. But when they come in near-death, they're not all that overpowered, IMO. You're not doubling anything. You're getting a slight edge, which is theoretically cost into the team base...just like its theoretically cost into the half-dozen other mechanics that allow you to bring in figures over your point cap.

That's true I forgot that when responding to this message. That's why when I discussed it before, I used the 500 version as the basis. I don't know how to appropriately factor in those hampered blue and yellow starting points.

So for each 100 points you add on the titan dial, not only do you get an extra attack, extra clicks on the main dial, but (usually) an extra 2 clicks on each detach figure. Those 100 points you spend gain you HUUUUGE benefits. I think it's safe to say this figure is worse (for gameplay) the higher up you go. I'm starting to think only the 500-point dial is completely broken, the 400-point dial is sort of broken and the 300 point dial is overpowered. Which would lend credence to the not-so-secret fact that WK doesn't playtest anything over 300 points.

Hey look at that, Kid Flash has perplex. So let's assume 500 pt game with full titans dial and your opponent moved within 17 squares of your starting area on turn 1. Here's the simple plan
- Move up 10
- Drop off Kid Flash behind cover of titans base
- attack 3 times, potential 12 damage
- perplex up defense to 20

Further if we assume the long odds of hitting the 20 are not in favor of your opponent, and you start the 2nd turn on the same click:
- Perplex up damage
- If you completely destroyed the figure last turn or no targets are in range, move 10 to acquire a new target
- attack 3 times for potential 15 damage
- drop off starfire, attack with her for 4 damage

I could continue, but if you just did 31 damage to the opponent it's possible the game's over already. That's not even taking into account the asset dial powers it may acquire (Outwit, shape change, no re-rolls, regen if you get hit)

I don't want you to think that I don't understand where you're coming from, because I do. But I just feel that once you get into the 500+ game, that this becomes a non-issue. At 500+ you're looking at all the usual OP suspects... You're talking about competing with a Big that has enough support to be viable. You're looking at Sentry/Void with support. You're looking at Chase Thanos with a killbox. You're looking at Capture-based teams. You're looking at vehicle kidnap teams. You're looking at colossals, and colossals with support... And all this is just within Modern Age! Go a little golden and you have Cosmic Spider-Man, Thor and Loki, and Earth-2 Superman...all with supporting casts. There's resources, which the Team Base can never never access. Golden Age brings Feats in, which the Team Base has to jump an opponents team another 100 point bracket, allowing that much more to bring against them.

On a cheese/broken/overpowered continuum, I couldn't rate this team base much higher than average at that level.

Here's what I'm interested in. All 7 Titans and the team base have been posted. Why doesn't someone go hang out with a fellow heroclix player, print off the needed materials, and playtest it in a 300 point game several times against several different matchups. Then get back to us and let's get an honest assessment on if they're busted or not.

rorschachparadox again made my point, so I'll only additionally stress: your desire to cherry pick scenarios just keeps coming through, again, even ignoring Colossals. Yes, IF someone does such AND have no other defenses built in...like the hindering terrain, Stealth, Defend, and TAs the Titans can't Outwit or ignore on their first strike (they'd get to remove ESD or a damage reducer...on a non-Stealther...unless the figure had PC/Quint or its own other source of Outwit protection). That's completely ignoring myriad other things: multi-barrier (even one can set up to absorb two attacks without exposing the Barrier user to the Titans Outwit or attacks themselves), the Titans being in position for a counter-salvo which they'd better be damn sure they've neutralized, sources of Incap that don't actually require an attack roll (on top of ones that won't be too hard pressed to hit the Titans despite their setup), and more strategies seen at this level than I can really tick off efficiently even with bullet-points...




...and oh, having a basic grasp of how many squares of 'swing' the Titans have and simply not exposing themselves the scenario you've specifically chosen to try and highlight how overpowered and game-breaking the Titans must be (see rorschachparadox's post...and most of the ones I've been making in this thread on this topic).

While I understand the potential here, you seem to be missing one very crucial point: human opponents do not always equal goldfish opponents. I remember back when the GSX set was getting previewed and people were losing their minds over the damage potential that the Colossus/Wolverine duo had. Then there's Earth 2 Supes or even SI Herc. All of these have the potential to do a heinous amount of damage to an opponent caught unawares.

However, assuming a 500-point game, there's a decent chance that your opponent may be able to win map choice and pick something like Bizarro World or have a bunch of strong, high-DV attackers with Psy Blast/PW. Stealthed teams can also be an issue as well, effectively removing one of the attacks you get because you can't see them. What should be assumed is that your opponent will understand what you're using and know how to play around it. Yes, there is potential there, but who's to say your opponent doesn't just Outwit the top-dial Charge or Running Shot when you reach it?

I mean, you can keep Kid Flash on the dial and have HSS but who do you take off then? Do you really want to make the dial vulnerable to PB or MC again by gaining a points advantage? The Team Base has a single PC, what happens when someone brings something like a Mystical team with a ton of PCers and Mystics damage?

Is the dial good? Yeah, it's great for the points, especially at 300 points with +7 to Map Choice and all of those built-in bonuses and I feel confident that we will likely see this (or one of the other Team Bases if they are similar) at Worlds this year. Is it broken? Nah.

True enough on the first point. On the following points: Who needs top dial charge or running shot when you can full move then attack? Regarding anti-stealth -- same thing, full move then attack. However, would any other anti-stealth pieces get to make -3- attacks on the stealth piece? You're usually to get one off (a PW, an overlap EE, a superman, a TK-close combat combo).

Like I said above, I think it's waaay more broken at 500 than 300 (if it's broken at 300 at all) just because of the extra life you get from the full-powered breakoff titans dials. Plus, 9 attacks a turn.