People are comparing Oranges to Tangerines here. While they are both citrus fruit they are different.

DC/Marvel/Idie Clix
While all of these games are under the HC lien they are in fact different game. They are lincesed prduct with different rules a regulations. The difference int eh SA cards had less ot do with Noobs and more ot do with the agreement. Marvel booster would later come with inserts to desrcibe the SA thet were not on the SA card. Then entire Indie clix which has all the SA on a card and a changed rulebook. The idie clix rulebook is now the rules used for all HC games. This has caused soem uproar in the HC players. There is also the issue that while they are all part of a simular line they are not played in Tournaments together ( though some venues allow it). They have seperate tournaments, National Champions, prize support and everything else.

1.0 Rebellion SAC
This comparsion has problems also due to the fact that when the SAC was put out there were 3 SA that no figure had. We are not talking about SA that no figure has. We are talking about SAs that are avaible in older sets. If a players wants to know where ot find a figure with a certain SA they can be directed to the older boosters. Not all SA were in every set. There was no ME in Lancers. There are figures availbale with these SA so there should be no complaining to WKs about that. All a player has to do is buy the older product that currently seems doomed to set ont he shelves.

Right now a player walking into a store is only going to get 9/10s of the rules. They have to go else were to get the remaining rules once they findout there are more rules. WK should produce a hardcopy version of a complete SA card.

Herehere! How many of you want to check multiple sources before having a strait answer? One web page, text only, complete rules and SAC. Is that too much to ask?

Me, I'm on the fence and eyeing the exit. I don't have the time and money I once did. However, my main thing will be whether my 1.0 collection retains/gains value under the new rules once the bugs are worked out. Some issues I see:

1.0 chargers/bounders need fixing. As is, many are useless or severely impaired while in their c/b slots due to low movement since they lose the free double move. I hear that 2.0 figs won't suffer this problem as they'll have better movememnt.

Flight really needs to be optional. Soarers can land but flyers can't? That's just stupid.

1.0/2.0 formation mix should be allowed, period. There's no logical reason why they shouldn't be. Saying 1.0 Atlanteans can't mix with 2.0 Atlanteans (example) is equivalent to declaring that there are now two seperate Atlantean factions. Same for all the other renamed factions. Is Snow (a 1.0 LE), the man who fired the shot that started the BPR, now considered no longer loyal to the new BPR? Sounds that way if he can't form up with his new 2.0 compatriots.

On a related note, 1.0s should be able to use artifacts. It would really seem silly to me if the aforementioned Snow couldn't wield his own rifle in the game. A simple errata that all 1.0 uniques get X artifact slots seems fair to me. Make X the average number 2.0's get. Simple, uncomplicated, and puts them on par with the new figs in this area.

Just a few changes I think need to be made. I may think of more later.

I don't understand how everyone can be so... whatever... to keep chanting this mantra of 'Wizkids is trying to phase out 1.0'. For the love of... have you people looked at any 1.0 figures under the 2.0 rules? Do you people not realize that many many more figures will now be available to you from your old collections for real tourney play than are available to you under the old rules? You guys need to get your heads out of the sand and wake up and smell the coffee... this game is so much better for 1.0 figures it's ridiculous and to keep chanting the 'I don't want to start over' idea is pure nonsense.

I've played 2.0 with 1.0 pieces and I'm definitely out. But we already knew that. Perhaps you ought to quit with the "Have- you-looked-at-1.0-figures-under-the-2.0-rules" mantra.

Perhaps you're the exception and not the rule, eh?

You can't tell me the majority of people complaining have honestly played a 2.0 game yet. And thus they have no basis to be ranting about what figures are useless. Nothing could change your mind guac... you decided from day one that you were out and no matter how well 1.0 pieces perform in 2.0, no one will ever convince you that you were wrong. Have a good life, and I mean that... I hope you find a game out there that suits you. Life without gaming just isn't worth living. ;)

Will we be seeing a Dungeons 2.0 next?

*ducks for cover*

I also fully expect to see WizKids re-release the Rebellion 1.0 figures with new 2.0 dials and possibly stats, driving the final nails into the 1.0 coffin. Atleast that's what my Swami tells me :)

But that's atleast 2 expansions away.

Dungeons 2.0 is a highly speculated topic... I don't know what's going to happen to it, but I trust WK won't do anything to it or very little...

Right.... :rolleyes:

I was never "out" from the beginning. If search the boards you'll find I have several enthusiastic responses to changes. The problem has always been the utility of 1.0 figs for me and others. Repeating the assertion to use the figs in a new way obviously isn't the answer, because it keeps coming up.

Alot of people have played this game for a long time and are able to anticipate at least SOME of the problems. You have to give them that at least.

Alot of people have played this game for along time and are able to see that differences between 2.0 figs and 1.0 figs (flight vs. wing symbol, for example) don't exactly match up (soaring vs no soaring, formations vs no formations, optional vs. not optional, doubletimeable vs. not doubletimeable). So, really, wether or not the 1.0 figs do passably, or even well, in 2.0 is somewhat moot, because of the inherent inequities between the figs under the rules. In otherwords, point cost (whatever the current formula is) be d-----, figs with a flight symbol will ALWAYS be superior to figs with the fligh sa as it now stands That's just one example.

Face it, you don't need to have played 2.0 with 1.0 and 2.0 figs to read the differences and grasp the problem.

It would be far far better to just come clean with people and say, "hey, your old figs can be used, and shoot, your wood golems are better now than they ever were under 1.0, but understand that your 1.0 figs just won't ever be fully compatible and in many instances will have some severe penalties."

These days I'm playin' CivIII and Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic for my strategy fix.

jmo
guac.

I'm on the fence, but leaning heavily towards out. I'm going to buy a starter and try the marquee. But as Werebob put it, much will depend on how well MK2.0 does in the area. If a lot of adults start playing again and I start enjoying the game again, I'll be in. If it's the same group of three to six kids all under the age of 14 I'm history.

I was optimistic at first and actually like many of the rules changes. What I don't like is the change of factions and formation rules, Flight no longer being optional, all of my KI chargers being inferior to a surging 2.0 figure, and the addition of 100 cards to collect on top of a brand new set of figures.

As to the number of people who've quit and don't post here, I too think the vocal quitters are a small number. In my area I know plenty of players that have quit or basically quit and do not post here anymore, if they ever did to begin with. I'll give you a prime example, anyone remember Yandros? He is from the same area and I used to play against him some. He gave away much of his collection at DragonCon and I haven't seen a post here by him since. MK lost an excellent player and one that had been here since very early on.

Another thing to consider--several of the outs and many of the undecideds are warlords. Think about the impact of losing them. I would guess that every warlord that quits will at least take a few players with him. I don't mean to say our influence is so great. It just means that in many areas there may not be anyone to run events when the warlord quits. Unless there is a large influx of new players, there is no one at my venue to take over as warlord if I leave.

That's basically what has happened in my area. Since the beginning of the summer, Omaha has lost at least 5 active MK warlords, myself included. In each case, when the Warlords left, players left as well. Some venues have dust on top of the same MK displays that could be barely kept in stock 6 months ago.

My venue has been bereft of a Warlord since I was canned in mid-June. While the kids still play 1.0, and I still run unsanctioned events, I am not making the switch to 2.0. If the kids want to switch, they can, but I see no reason to plunk down the $$ for a couple starters and a dozen boosters to continue teaching newbs to play. There are other games out there that I feel are a better investment on my gaming dollar.

It's sad, but the way it is for all games: if no one plays it in your area, you may not pick it up either, no matter how kewl the game may be.

I'm out.

Before Dragon's Gate came out I was missing only 6 figures (4 of them were the horsemen). But I'm not leaving just becuase of 2.0. I've been thinking about it for a long time. My collection completely took over a room in my house and I really wasn't playing much anymore. So sold off 3/4 of my collection the past month and kept the heroes and and a good number of mage spawn to play dungeons. Plus kept some orcs and necros so I could still play 1.0 with a friend sometimes.

I had nothing against 2.0 except for the change in faction symbols which I think was done only to make sales. Otherwise I think its fine. Ok, I didn't like the change in bound and charge but could get over that one.

The problem with collectible games is they become obsessions. This leads to spending vast amounts of money and unhealthy amounts of time. I think I'm done with collectible games now. Its too hard to control the urge to get a complete set. These games are murder for collector types like me. :)

I do hope everyone enjoyed the cardboard buildings and terrain I did for the game. It was fun to do and they appear to still be available on the official site. My skimming of the new rules seems to suggest they are still viable for the new game.